Michael Yardney will tell us what’s going to drive our economy now that the mining boom is over.
With property prices continuing to soar across the country, first home buyers and investors are looking for easier ways to enter the property market. Chris Gray looks at how they are doing it.
Our population growth is slowing. John McGrath joins us to discuss that and also comments on where and why the market appears to be slowing.
Simon Pressley from Propertyology has been analysing the latest employment data for locations right across Australia and has found some interesting discoveries that will impact property.
Property management expert Corina Bailey has a shot at the industry.
Greville Pabst takes a look at the Melbourne market with reports circulating that there are too many units.
Kevin: As any seasoned investor is going to tell you, employment trends can be a precursor to property market trends. Propertyology’s Simon Pressley has spent quite a considerable amount of time analyzing the latest employment data for locations right around Australia. He’s come up with some pretty interesting discoveries that we’re going to talk about.
Hi, Simon. Thanks for your time.
Simon: Thanks for having me, Kevin.
Kevin: Simon, firstly, what did you find out?
Simon: Looking at employment trends is something we do several times throughout the year, Kevin, because it’s important to see where the jobs are that people might move towards.
Nationally, Australia is actually performing a lot better than broad unemployment rates would suggest. Obviously, over the last couple of years, unemployment rates have trended up – not to alarming levels – but we’ve actually created a lot more jobs. There are 3% more jobs here in Australia today than two years ago.
Kevin: I know it’s one of the factors you need to look at when you’re determining where you want to invest. It’s a pretty good one, too. Where does it rank in importance from some of the other factors?
Simon: I would always say affordability is the number one consideration we look for. But employment and economic development would be a very close second.
Kevin: Have you noticed any trends in there with employment and things like developments and infrastructure around Australia?
Simon: There is. Infrastructure, depending on the nature of the project, can create a lot of jobs, but it depends. For example, Northern Territory – Darwin specifically – has created really good jobs over the last two years, but a big chunk of that was the Equus LNG Project, so it’s a short-term job creation factor. There’s devil in the detail when looking at job data. It’s not just looking for big numbers; it’s looking for the sustainability of it.
Kevin: How important is it to differentiate between actual job numbers and unemployment rates?
Simon: Look. It’s critically important, I think. Generally speaking, what we read in the media about employment is a very broad unemployment rate, and even then, it’s usually “Queensland is this, WA is that.” Well, as a property investor, that’s really useless information to us. We’re not going to invest in the whole state.
Even if you have stripped down an unemployment rate, to say, one city – like Brisbane – we see more value in what is the trend of that? You can have an unemployment rate that might be above the national average but fast trending down because it’s creating lots of jobs. Looking more at the job creation data rather than the broad unemployment rates is a lot more valuable to us.
Kevin: What did you find out state by state?
Simon: State by state, Victoria and New South Wales have performed very strongly, and there’s no coincidence there that Sydney and Melbourne have had really strong property markets. At a state level, New South Wales has 4% more jobs today than two years ago against a national average of 3%. Victoria has 2.9% more jobs. The big surprise in there for some would be Tasmania. Of all the eight states and territories, it’s performed the best. There are 5.5% more jobs in Tasmania today, Kevin, than two years ago.
Kevin: Why is that? What’s driving that?
Simon: Part of it, I think, is a change of government about 18 months ago. Tasmania had a 16-year reign – from memory – of the same state government, which is a long time for one party to be in office. I think just a fresh face. Tasmania is really benefiting from what we know as the Asian century. Its industry drivers there are perfectly placed to benefit from job creation stuff as it takes advantage of the Asian century.
Kevin: Of course, a majority of people choose to live in the eastern states in some of the capital cities, and you get down into the regional areas and it’s pretty sparse in some ways. Is that actually changing?
Simon: Look. I think we can be guilty as human beings for generalizing too much. Some say that capital cities are better than regions, and regions are mean risk in all that stuff. Well, it’s a really general comment. There are risks in some regions, and there are risks in some capital cities. But there is some really exciting employment data in some of the regions.
The best performing region in all of Australia over the last two years has been the Orana region, which is central west New South Wales. The official capital of the Orana region is Dubbo, and there are 32.6% extra jobs in the Orana region today compared to two years ago.
Kevin: What’s behind that?
Simon: It’s one of Australia’s best agricultural sectors. We’ve probably all heard that terminology Australia is Asia’s food bowl. Dubbo itself isn’t an agricultural town, but it’s a big city that services a broad agricultural region. That’s one factor behind it. There’s some tourism out there. The Western Plains Zoo is expanding, and there have been a few infrastructure projects in the region, as well.
Kevin: You mentioned Sydney and Melbourne as the two highlights out of the report. What about some of the other capital cities? You mentioned Brisbane, but what about Perth? You mentioned Hobart, what about Perth and Darwin?
Simon: Yes. Darwin has created the most jobs of the capital cities, 8.3%, but when we really look closer at that data, that really relates to a big influx of jobs in the first of those last two years, and that was directly related to that big gas project that we spoke about. The devil is in the details in the Darwin data.
In Perth, there’s 2.4% more jobs created over the last two years – which, at least, is positive data – but it is below the national average. We should expect that understanding that a big part of Perth’s economy is heavily influenced by iron ore and what’s been happening there.
Kevin: You talk about the influences. You look at Canberra, some pretty big influences there, but it’s all based on what’s happening in politics.
Simon: Yes, definitely. About 28.5% – from memory – of all jobs in the nation’s capital of Canberra are government jobs one way or another, and obviously, it’s widely known there’s been a lot of shedding of jobs there as governments try to balance budgets. Of all the capital cities in Australia, Canberra is the only one where there has been a decline in jobs – 2.2% fewer jobs today than two years ago, Kevin.
Kevin: Yes. It’s a bit of a cot case, the old Canberra. You drive around there and you see a lot of vacant buildings, as well.
Simon: Yes, it’s had a lot of extra housing supply, mainly unit stock there, so it’s a double whammy.
Kevin: Yes. I’ve been talking to Simon Pressley from Propertyology. The website is Propertyology.com.au, and a great report. That’s available on your website, Simon?
Simon: It is indeed, Kevin.
Kevin: Yes. Good stuff, and great talking to you, mate. Thank you for your time.
Simon: Thanks, Kevin. All the best.
Kevin: Well, the mining boom is well and truly over, so what’s going to drive our economy now? That’s the question we pose today of Michael Yardney from Metropole Property Strategists.
Michael, your answer to that?
Michael: I think we use to, in the old days, live off the sheep’s back around Federation time, and then we were a manufacturing country. We were protected from the Global Financial Crisis by the fortuitously timed resources boom spurred by China’s insatiable appetite for almost anything we could dig out of the ground at the time. But, Kevin, that boom is over, and I don’t think it is going to come back again ever to that level.
The government was looking for other ways to drive our economy. Initially, it was real estate, the property sector, the construction sector, and that has carried us through for a few years. But I guess a good question is what industries are going to take us into the future? The simple answer is service industries, Kevin.
Kevin: Let’s talk a bit more about that, Michael.
Michael: Service industries are going to drive our long-term growth, and that’s in particular the health industry, the finance industry, insurance, and education. It’s not just servicing Australians but servicing our geographic neighbors, also, including Asia and China.
Interestingly, I was surprised when I read a report from the ANZ Bank and Price Waterhouse saying that service-based industries – like I said, finance, engineering, education, tourism – already employ nine out of ten people, Kevin. They account for 75% of Australia’s GDP, so it’s quite significant.
But the suggestion is it’s where the growth will be in the future, and that’s where wages growth is going to be. In my mind, that’s what investors should keep an eye on, because that’s where people are going to also be able to afford – if they get higher wages growth – to pay more for properties, and that will lead to capital growth of properties, as well.
Kevin: But, Michael, these service industries are predominantly city-based, aren’t they? What does that mean for the regional areas?
Michael: Unfortunately, it means that more of our migrants and more of our locals are going to be moving to the big capital cities. If you look at 2015 – the current year – Sydney has created 87,000 jobs. The rest of Australia, including all the other capital cities, created just over 80,000 jobs.
The vast majority of jobs created are currently in Melbourne and Sydney, Sydney taking the lion’s share. That’s where most of the migrants are coming. Remember our large population growth is basically being driven by overseas migration. Sure, we’re taking some refugees, and sure, we’re taking some family reunions, but the vast majority is people wanting jobs.
You’re right, Kevin. There’s going to be a bigger gap between the regional cities and the big capital cities. Even within the capital cities, Kevin, the majority of economic growth is going to center around their CBDs where the big office buildings for a lot of these industries are.
Kevin: Michael, we’ve seen in the past where governments have tried to encourage people to go and work remotely, particularly with things like the Internet, being able to work in those areas. Is that a possibility? Is that going to be the savior for some of these regional areas?
Michael: Kevin, they’ve always talked about decentralization, and the government has attempted by moving government organizations and tax officers to the regional area. They’ve also encouraged industries to move there with tax breaks. But in my mind, that’s really just fiddling around the edges. That’s unlikely to be a driver of major growth of population, wages, and real estate in the future.
Like other countries, our economy is going to change to being service-industry based in the big capital cities, and in particular to world-class cities of Melbourne and Sydney. That means we’re going to have more yuppies… Remember that term from the 1980s?
Michael: …Young, upwardly-mobile professionals who are going to be willing to and able to afford to pay a premium for housing because they’re going to want to live closer to where there work is. There’s going to be gentrifying of those inner suburbs. They’re not going to want that really long drive or public-transport commute to the outer suburbs.
Kevin: Thank you, Michael. We’ll leave it there. Michael, of course, and his blogsite, PropertyUpdate.com.au.
Michael Yardney, thank you for your time.
Michael: My pleasure, Kevin.
Kevin: With property prices continuing to soar across the country, first-home buyers and investors are looking for easier ways to enter the property market yet still build wealth for retirement. One of Australia’s property thought leaders, Chris Gray, has the answer. He says rent while building a property portfolio. He joins us.
Good day, Chris.
Chris: Hi. Good to see you again.
Kevin: Good to be talking, mate. Thank you.
Chris, this is an interesting topic, but it is one I have to say that I’ve heard a lot of young people are now doing. Are you seeing that, too?
Chris: Young people; even old people like me are doing it.
Kevin: You’re not old. I’m old. You’re not.
Chris: Look, it’s a classic thing. I was speaking to a bunch of Deloitte accountants yesterday, and I’m saying, “How many people want to go in the office and tell everyone, tell the world that they rent for a living?” Everyone’s going to look down at you and think you’re poor straightaway. It’s like driving an old secondhand car or something.
But it’s the way of the world these days. It doesn’t make any sense, especially if you want super luxury properties, like the $1 million, $2 million, $5 million, or $10 million properties. This is the perfect way to get in because it’s almost a third of the price.
Kevin: It’s been engrained in us, though, to go and buy a home as opposed to rent because, as you say, there is a bit of a stigma attached to it.
Chris: There’s a massive stigma. It’s like claiming the dole, or buying own-brand foods, or something like that. Our parents always told us rent money is dead money, and that is true, but the main exception is rent money isn’t dead money as long as you’re investing the equivalent amount of money into property, shares, or business, and that’s the key.
Kevin: Yes, that is the way to look at it, too. I guess the other thing, too, Chris, there are some restrictions when you rent. You don’t own the property, so therefore, it’s curtailed as to what you can do it with it.
Chris: That’s what everyone thinks, and that’s the mindset that we all have engrained. But if you think about it, if someone says, for instance, “I can’t paint it the color I want,” if you say to your landlord, “I’m going to get some professional painters in, we’re going to paint it a different color, and when we go to leave, if you don’t like it, we’ll pay the professionals to come in and repaint it again in any color you want, and suddenly you’ve got a brand new painted house or unit,” what landlord is going to complain about that?
Kevin: Not many, I wouldn’t have thought.
Chris: I have put in hot water systems into the pool to heat the pool systems. I’ve offered to put in new kitchens and new bathrooms, and people say, “Why would you spend $20,000 or $30,000 improving a landlord’s property when they can kick you out?” I say, “The first thing is if I give them a new kitchen, do you think they’re ever going to kick me out? Of course not, because I’ll give them a bathroom the next year.”
If I’m saving… As a good example, say a $5 million home and you’re paying, say, 7% interest on it, it costs you, $350,000 in interest. I can rent that home for maybe $150,000. I’m saving a few hundred thousand dollars, so why wouldn’t I spend $20,000 improving it? Because I’m still saving lots of money.
Kevin: Because you’re getting the lifestyle – aren’t you – and you’re actually being able to reuse your money much more wisely.
Chris: It is. It’s just like, I guess, going on holiday. You don’t need to buy the holiday resort; you just rent it for a couple of weeks because you only need it for that short time. Think of it as in housing. You only want to use that property for a year or two, so why spend all of that money buying a house, paying all of those in and out costs, whereas an investment, I’m happy keeping my investment for 30 or 40 years, and then I just go and rent wherever I’m comfortable living.
Kevin: The other thing, too, I guess is that by renting, as well, you’re able to really choose the sort of location that you’d like to live in, one that you may not want to invest in as your principal place of residence.
Chris: 100%. Look, I got married about eight years ago, and we have two young kids. We just thought when we’re a single couple, we’re going to want different things to when we have little kids, where you have a pram and things like that. Then when the kids are older, you want something different.
We don’t know… Because we haven’t tried that many houses or different suburbs, so how do we know which is the best one? Let’s try some really big houses, some old ones; let’s try some new houses.
We’re now living in a unit, which most people would think, “Why would you want to have a family in a unit?” But we’re in a round building. We have 360-degree views around Sydney. We get the whole floor, and you can see the Blue Mountains, you can see the Harbour Bridge, you can see Manly. We never thought we’d want to live in a unit but until you try, how do you know?
Kevin: Yes. Very good topic, and a very good thought, too, Chris. Chris is one of the speakers who will be on stage at the 2015 Property Buyer Expo. It’s on later this month, October 30 and November 1. It is actually at the Sydney Showground in Homebush.
You have some tickets to give away, as well.
Chris: Yes, exactly. I think it’s something like $15 or $20 to get in, if you just want to get on the website or pay on the door. But if you go PropertyBuyerExpo.com.au, there will be a promotional code in there. If you put in “Empire,” then they’ll e-mail you those tickets for free.
Kevin: That is fantastic. Well done, mate. Thank you.
Chris: My pleasure.
Kevin: I look forward to seeing you there, too, Chris.
Chris: Sounds great. Thanks a lot.
Kevin: One of the big hurdles for anyone with an investment property is actually having it managed effectively. Whether that’s meaning that you’re managing it yourself or doing it through an agency, you need to make sure that you’re up to date with all of the legislation because even though it’s under the care of an agent, you are still responsible.
I’m going to find out a little bit more about this because it would appear that despite the fact that there have been a number of inquests and inquiries and changes that should have been made, lots haven’t changed in the industry. Joining me now is Corina Bailey from LandlordSpecialists.com.au, who’s also dubbed as the Landlord Guru.
Corina, thank you for your time today.
Corina: You’re welcome. Thank you.
Kevin: Things haven’t changed all that much?
Corina: No, that’s correct. There’s a lot of gray area, shall we say, within the Residential Tenancy Act, and there’s a lot that landlords do need to be aware of in terms of their rights, responsibilities, and obligations.
Kevin: I guess a lot of landlords would think, “Oh well, i’s managed by a professional agency. I can relax now and not have to worry too much,” in other words, it’s arm’s length. It may be arm’s length, but they’re still responsible for a lot of things.
Corina: Yes, that’s correct. Unfortunately, there are a lot of landlords who falsely believe that by handing their property over to be managed by a property manager, that they are somewhat protected, therefore not liable or not responsible at all.
Kevin: Your role is really to work with landlords, whether they self-manage or go through an agency, to make sure that they’re well and truly educated. What are you seeing as some of the problems that landlords are facing now?
Corina: There are just certain aspects they’re not happy with. They’re not happy with the communication that they’re receiving from their property managers, they’re not happy with the regular inspections that are to be conducted on their properties, and they’re not happy with the documentation and the reporting side of that, as well.
Kevin: You did a survey recently, didn’t you? These are results of that survey?
Corina: Yes. Look, that’s correct. What our landlords want to know is really what is it going to take before the industry gets cleaned up? More often than not, hearing about all those tenant horror stories on “A Current Affair” and the like.
If I can take you back to an incident that occurred on the 19th of September, 2012, there was a death of a baby in Queensland after her father had fallen through a deck that required repair and wasn’t picked up during a regular inspection. Consequently, the father dropped the baby and the baby was killed.
It’s these sorts of horror stories that are really, really making landlords sit up, and they’re now standing up to have some things changed. What we’re trying to do here is get the industry to become more accountable. Currently, there’s no industry standard with regards to inspections, there’s no auditing process, there’s no guidelines about what is and isn’t required when doing an inspection, let alone the fact that there are no training programs in place.
Kevin: I was really surprised to read the results of your research where you actually spoke to a number of property managers and asked them some key questions. Some of their responses were actually quite shocking.
Corina: When we interviewed property managers, we explained that our landlords are saying that they’re not happy in this area, and when I asked, “Why don’t you, as a property manager, see inspections as being important enough to have a professionally trained and suitably qualified inspector perform these?” the responses amazed me.
A handful of them saw it as a [3:12 inaudible] part of their job. Passing that information on to our landlords and they’re astounded that a $600,000 investment property is only valued at around about $10. What sort of a quality inspection can somebody do for $10? Literally, they would just walk in and have a quick look around and walk out.
Landlords are telling us that they’re not receiving reports. They’re not getting any photographs, and if they do, it’s very limited. Photographs are blurry. This is really important information that landlords need and property managers need because at the end of the tenancy, it’s all of these reports that factor into how the bond refund fund is distributed at the end of the tenancy.
Kevin: How would you suggest that someone who’s looking to find a good property manager actually knows that they’re actually dealing with a good one?
Corina: Landlords need to insist that regular communication takes place with their property manager, that the property manager is ideally doing quarterly inspections, that inspections are thorough, and that the landlord receives a report – a comprehensive detailed report and lots of photographs, because there are lots of things that occur over the duration of the tenancy – fair wear and tear particularly – that landlords need to factor into their budget, whether they need to be looking at getting carpet replaced and the property repainted. Landlords are wanting to make their tenants happy, and happy tenants means they stay long term and they look after our investment properties.
Kevin: Okay. If you want to get a bit more information, you can certainly do that at the website. It’s a great website, called LandlordSpecialists.com.au. I have been talking to the Landlord Guru herself, Corina Bailey.
Corina, thank you for your time.
Corina: You’re welcome. Thank you, Kevin.
Kevin: The McGrath report has just been released. This is an annual report, and John McGrath actually analyzes the Australian residential property market. It’s a great read. The author of that joins me, John McGrath.
John: Good day, Kevin. Thank you very much. We try and do our best. It’s an interesting market, isn’t it?
Kevin: Well, that’s what I wanted to ask you about. In your opening message, you say it’s the most fascinating period you’ve seen in Australian residential real estate in the last 50 years. What makes it so fascinating from your point of view?
John: Good question. Look. I think it’s a few things, Kevin. Sydney has been almost in an unprecedented growth spurt in the last three years. As we came out of the GFC and the markets stabilize, we’ve seen about a 50% growth in the last few years, which is very, very strong – as anyone who’s been in the market for a while would know. Melbourne hasn’t been too far behind either. Sydney and Melbourne have been incredibly strong markets.
Interestingly, normally when the Australian market is in recovery mode, you see basically every capital city and a lot of the regionals growing at a similar time – maybe not an identical pace, but at a similar time. What we’ve seen now is Sydney and Melbourne are almost decoupling from the rest of the Australian market, and they’ve shot off. The rest of the Australian market is somewhere between flat to beginning its recovery cycle. Certainly, Southeast Queensland, we think, is in the early stages of what will be a three- or four-year recovery cycle.
Kevin: In your report, you talk about the Manhattan effect. What do you mean by that?
John: When you think of Manhattan, you see that basically it’s no longer an area where first-home buyers or young couples can really afford. They need to move out to the boroughs and out to Brooklyn and get out of Manhattan because it’s really become a very exclusive and very highly priced enclave.
I think that if you look at inner Sydney, for example – let’s say that’s within seven to ten kilometers of the city – it’s somewhat become like Manhattan. We’re really looking at a $1 million to $1.25 million as an average price for almost anything in those areas. For young couples, even those who are doing quite well, it’s very difficult to afford property in inner Sydney.
I think what’s going to happen is either young people are going to stay home a bit longer with their folks and buy a property and rent it out until they can afford to live in it, or indeed, they’re going to be pushed a little bit further out into the suburbs.
That’s not all over a bad thing because they do get creative, and we start to unlock pockets of real estate. Sydney’s been a great example of some suburbs that a lot of people never would have dreamed of living in, and they’ve become very, very exciting and edgy little precincts nowadays because people are moving in and they’re renovating and retail is following them in.
I think this is just what we’ve seen elsewhere in the world where prime cities and the inner part of prime cities becomes a very expensive product when it comes to real estate.
Kevin: Some of the things that you talk about in your report – getting back to the Manhattan effect – these create great challenges for local planners. I noticed in there you talk about the global vertical villages that are going to be created. It creates a lot of problems or challenges for town planners, doesn’t it?
John: It does. But I think an important part of the solution is these infill developments where there is opportunity in a city. While a lot of people inherently are against development and high-rises, I think when you’re talking about an inner urban environment, it is the natural and logical way to go, rather than just continued urban sprawl further and further and further out into the suburbs, which requires a lot more infrastructure.
I think that if you can just take advantage of the opportunities that are sitting under our nose in inner Sydney, Brisbane, or Melbourne, in the big cities, there is going to be great opportunity. But the problem is, of course, you need to be able to cope with the influx of population in and around. You have car parking issues. You have all sorts of other activities. You have pollution issues. Those things need to be dealt with, but I do think that there is really a need in the big cities to be doing more development of medium and high density closer to the CBDs.
Kevin: John, APRA’s moves to make it tougher for investors to get finance is seeing a lot of investors retreat. We’re hearing a lot of reports about that, even in this last week. Properties in some of the classic Sydney investor suburbs are just not selling. Do you think they’ve actually moved too far?
John: Well, yes. It’s interesting, Kevin. Let’s look at interest rates, which have been a key driver of this property boom in certainly Sydney and Melbourne. The Reserve Bank has wanted to reduce rates to help prop up the other ailing sectors of the economy, for example, retail. If you pull the lever on interest rates, well, then it does buoy the retail, but it also buoys the real estate market, which they’re trying to cool down.
I think APRA has seen an opportunity to calm down the investor demand, which was becoming prolific. It was over 50% of the approved loans in the last 12 months were going to investors, which is normally about 25%, so we’d seen a doubling effect of the investor demand.
While I’m a free-trade guy, I kind of like to have as few manufactured imposts on the market and let free trade find its right level. I do see that there are opportunities to pull on the lever like this and maybe just calm down the investor market a little bit.
Kevin: John McGrath, thank you so much for your time.
John: Thanks, Kevin. Goodbye.
Kevin: We’re finding that the Melbourne market today is a very, very interesting market. It’s classed as one of the hottest markets in Australia. But we’ve heard lots of things about an oversupply of units, so let’s get a bit of an update on that particular market. Greville Pabst from WBP Property Group joins me.
Greville, an interesting Melbourne market right now. What are you hearing about any oversupply of units and what’s the cautionary note about settlement of some of these off-the-plan units?
Greville: Look, Kevin, it is a very complex market with lots of different subsectors, but I think that the greatest risk that faces many buyers of off-the-plan apartments, particularly in Australia’s capital cities, is that the lending landscape has changed from the time that they signed the contract to when they come to settlement. Of course, that can be some 18 months down the track.
I think that is going to cause many buyers potentially to get into some trouble, given that lending is now a lot tougher and the deposits are larger. I really do caution buyers to perhaps go back to their financier and just have a look at those numbers again, because if they leave it too late, they may find that they may not be able to settle the property.
Kevin: Yes, the point you make is a very good one. Anyone who purchased off the plan, say, 12 months ago with a settlement coming up, they should recheck with their finance because, as you say, particularly with investors, deposits have changed and so too have the lending conditions, Greville.
Greville: Yes. Not only the lending conditions but a lot of banks that lent to investors have actually pulled out of the market. HSBC is one bank that has pulled out investment lending, and ANP now, as well. There are also limited options for investors to go to outside of the major four banks. That’s almost like a little tightening of the monetary supply, which is the double whammy.
We’re also noticing that the types of products that are popular in the market… When I’m talking about products, I’m talking about apartments or houses. The demand for apartments and units is starting to wane, and that’s reflected in their performance in the latest median house and unit prices.
Kevin: Of course, if in fact there is somewhat of an oversupply of units in the Melbourne market, that’s going to make that situation even worse, Greville.
Greville: Yes. The oversupply of apartments, particularly in Melbourne, potentially could be a problem because of that valuation settlement risk.
Kevin: Greville, the bottom line: make sure if you have bought off the plan, that you get back and check with your financier to make sure that you can settle.
Greville: Yes, definitely. Perhaps have a talk with the bank of mom and dad.
Kevin: You might have to! Greville Pabst from WBP Property Group.
Greville, thanks for your time.
Greville: Thanks, Kevin.