Shannon Davis has just returned from the UK and reflects on how differently real estate transactions are conducted there and what opportunities exist for investors.
Our finance expert, Andrew Mirams, has been looking into the impact of the new APRA rules on investors and we ask Andrew if APRA’s grip on the banks is too tight.
Michael Yardney looks at why agents underquote property prices and how to beat them at their own game.
Jane Slack-Smith shares the 6 things she has found successful investors do and in a two part interview we catch up with the author of a report on what you really think about agents.
Kevin: My chat this week with Michael Yardney will apply to buyers in every market except Queensland, and why? That will become obvious to you in just a moment.
Michael: Hello, Kevin.
Kevin: Michael, the topic for this week is about underquoting on property prices. Particularly this relates to auction, Michael.
Michael: Kevin, I’ve been to a lot of auctions where the properties have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars more than the agents have quoted, and I know that’s certainly disappointed many perspective buyers who’ve missed out at auction, sometimes being misled by the agent’s quoting range.
Kevin: It’s difficult – isn’t it – because agents are not valuers, yet they’re expected by buyers to give them an indication – probably fairly so, too – about where the bidding will start or where it might finish.
Michael: That’s true. I think we should, first of all, say that most agents are not being dishonest. There are two elements to it. Definitely, there are some people who do try to lure a large crowd to the auction by quoting on the low end of the range. But it’s important to draw the distinction between underquoting and the situation where competitive bidding results in a sale price way above what the vendors reserve was. Boy, have I seen a lot of those, as well.
Kevin: Yes. That use to be a saying, “Feed the greed.” Get the buyers there, give them a low indication. All we want to do is just get the buyers there.
Michael: “Quote it low, watch it go. Quote it high, watch it die.”
Kevin: That’s exactly right. Those sorts of things are fairly well embedded in the industry. But I think the culture nowadays, Michael, is that agents are a lot more understanding that they have to be very transparent.
Michael: Kevin, it’s illegal to underquote. But let’s remember that the auction process is designed to extract the maximum price for a property by bringing together a group of potential purchasers in a competitive environment. I’m still regularly surprised how high an emotional buyer will push prices just in their eagerness to get it. I genuinely believe an auction is a good way to sell many properties.
Kevin: I said at the opening that it would apply to a buyer in every state except Queensland. The reason being is that in Queensland, the agents simply cannot quote a figure; they can only give competitive market analysis, which is an indication of what is sold in the area, which seems to me, Michael, to be abundantly a much fairer situation.
Michael: I agree with you, Kevin. I agree. But the system happens here. There’s an owner who’s thinking of selling a property, so he asks a number of agents to tell him what they think his property is worth. Of course, the vendor is inclined to go with the agent who gives them the highest price, who quotes them the highest price.
That’s not necessarily the right way to do things. But I know some agents are a little bit generous in this appraisal. They quote a highish price, but during the marketing campaign, they put a lower price bracket there, hoping – over time – to get the eventual selling price close to what the vendor hopes for.
Unfortunately, the estate agent is in a difficult position. He’s a broker between the vendor, who naturally wants a top price, and the purchaser, who doesn’t want to pay too much, so during the auction campaign, they’re walking this tightrope, not being able to disclose the vendor’s real reserve price, while buyers understandably keep their cards close to their chest also, and they don’t honestly tell the agent exactly how much they’re prepared to pay, either.
Kevin: There’s a pretty simple solution from both sides, I think, and that is that the seller should always get a valuation done, maybe an independent valuation, and buyers should really do their own homework and have that ceiling limit.
Michael: Very much so. Currently what’s happening is the regulators are getting into stop underquoting. As you said a minute ago, real estate is a state-based law, but in general, selling agents are prohibited from quoting below the vendor’s reserve price and also below what the agent’s estimated selling range is, and they should have a pretty good indication, as you say, Kevin.
Kevin: Yes. Quite often, though, reserves are changed, even changed midway through the auction, so it’s very difficult for an agent when they’ve been told they can’t quote below the reserve because that reserve could quite easily change.
Michael: Kevin, often the reserve is only finalized the day or two before the auction. You’re 100% right. They will often have an idea, and that’s modified during the marketing campaign based on market feedback. Definitely, I’ve seen that it happen at auction, as well, where it goes up or goes down.
But there are a couple of ways that potential buyers can handle these price guides that are given out.
Kevin: What are they, Michael?
Michael: I think the first thing is it’s important to be aware that underquoting does take place. Now, I’m not justifying it, Kevin; I’m just saying since it occurs, it makes sense to have a pragmatic approach to it.
The next one is to do what you just said a moment ago, Kevin, and that’s to do your due diligence regarding the property’s value and the maximum you’re prepared to pay. Research the Internet, attend auctions, speak with a variety of agents. Monitor auction results –not asking prices, not quoted ranges, but exactly what’s been sold. Then be realistic. Use the agent’s estimate as a guide only, knowing that it’s likely to sell considerably above that.
I guess I’m biased, but I’d also say level the playing field. Consider engaging the services of an independent buyer’s agent because these professionals have, first of all, got access to all the sales data, and they’re able to analyze it and interpret it, which is probably more important, too, and they can also negotiate on your behalf.
Often, Kevin, a buyer’s agent can speak to an agent, professional to professional, and they can go behind the curtain and see exactly what the vendor wants and what other people are saying that they’re prepared to offer so that you can put a good negotiating strategy at the auction day.
Kevin: Yes. Nice plug there, Michael. I would have been disappointed if you didn’t give yourself a plug. But let me just even it out a little bit by saying that buyers need to realize that the selling agent is working for the seller.
Kevin: If you really do want to level the playing field, that’s a great way to do it if you don’t feel confident about bidding at an auction yourself. I just thought I’d put that in because I think as an independent player, using a buyer’s agent is actually a very good idea.
Michael: Thanks, Kevin.
Kevin: That’s all right. I won’t ask you to comment anymore, Michael. Thank you for joining us. Michael Yardney from Metropole Property Strategists. Thanks, mate.
Michael: My pleasure, Kevin.
Kylie Davis Part 1
Kevin: I was really interested to read some research that was released during the week by CoreLogic RP Data. Market research company Roy Morgan has been polling Australians about the trustworthiness of different professions since 1975. Real estate agents really haven’t rated all that well over the years. I guess it’s painting a different picture. The 2015 results are out. I’m talking now to Kylie Davis who is the head of Real Estate Solutions at CoreLogic.
Kylie, thanks for your time.
Kylie: Thanks very much, Kevin. Great to be here.
Kevin: I was really interested to go through some of these results. Let’s deal with a few of them. Let’s have a look at the first one. We always talk about how important it is for people when they’re selling their property to call in more than one agent. But I notice that 38% of people only call in one. Is that, do you think, because agents are getting better at marketing themselves?
Kylie: I think there are a couple of things sitting behind that number. My initial reaction was, “Gee, that’s a lot of people who are playing a bit of Russian Roulette with how they go,” but what’s behind it is that the people who only call in one agent have usually done a couple of behaviors before they call in that one agent.
They will have probably seen an agent successfully sell a local property. They will have been to a couple of open for inspections or they will have checked out the market and seen an agent in action and been impressed by how he or she managed that process or how they interacted with them.
Especially what those people who are only seeing one agent are doing in most cases is they’re also doing a lot of online research. They’re looking at the agent’s website, finding out how that agent behaves and how they present properties and what their process and structure is. They’re doing a lot of offline research. Then they’re meeting the agent and interviewing them to confirm what they’ve seen is good to go.
Kevin: The big drive in the industry is about becoming someone’s agent before they actually need one. That probably is the end result of that type of activity.
Interesting there, picking up on a point that you made about how much research sellers do. They use the Internet but only 3% of vendors are influenced by social media. It’s obviously not having as much of an impact as I thought it would have.
Kylie: We were a bit surprised by that. We thought that there would be more. I think that there are a couple of things at play in that space. Unless you socially know an agent because they’re a friend or you know them through acquaintances, you’re not going to friend them until you are in that space where you want to buy or sell.
I think, too, a lot of agents do social media really poorly. Posting on Twitter, “I have a new house for sale,” or “Here’s a new house for sale,” is the most boring thing and no one wants to follow that. That kind behavior in that social space isn’t working as a way of attracting either vendors or buyers.
Kevin: What were the big things that were attracting them? What did you find out there?
Kylie: Overwhelmingly, one of the key influences is seeing the agent perform successfully for somebody else. What that told us was that the take out for real estate agents is that every open for inspection is an audition for every potential new customer you might ever have.
In fact, when you go into an open house, even if you’re just kicking the tires or checking out a neighbor’s home, the way that an agent treats you during that process is going to make you decide that they’re worth thinking about if you ever come to use them again or whether you just dismiss them on sight, pretty much.
Kevin: Obviously, potential sellers are doing a lot more homework than I think agents realize. You make a good point there about how they perform at an open house, how they’re going to be judged by that performance, and how they’re going to be followed up because it’s like an audition.
Kylie: It is. It’s completely an audition. You have to be on from day one. A lot of real estate agents, I think they segment in their mind, “I’m just trying to sell this house now so that has nothing to do with my next prospect. That’s a completely different behavior.” In fact, what the research shows that they’re really intrinsically linked.
Kevin: Was there a difference in performance or the way they’re assessed between male and female agents?
Kylie: There was and there wasn’t. We asked our survey respondents… And all of our survey respondents were people who had sold a home recently. I think that’s a really important differentiator.
While Roy Morgan was asking the community at large, “What do you think of agents?” what we wanted to understand was people who are actually paying to use an agent in selling their home, what was their experience like in dealing with that agent and how good, bad, or indifferent was it?
We asked our survey respondents if their agent was male or female, but that was all we asked. Then we basically did a whole lot of research into what the behaviors were that made an agent amazing, all right, or poor, and then we broke that down by sex. That was how we got to it. We weren’t asking anyone to judge whether their male agent was better or worse than their female agent.
What came out of that, though, was that there were four or five key behaviors that an agent does or doesn’t do that will determine if they are excellent, okay, or not great.
Kevin: We’ll come back a little bit later in the show and tell you what those key findings were. One of the other findings we’ll discuss later in the show, too, is why so many consumers lose confidence in their agent during the selling process.
Kylie Davis, back again with us a little bit later in the show.
Kevin: There is a lot of talk at present about what APRA is currently doing – the prudential authority – in terms of putting the screws on the banks and maybe restricting lending to investors. Let’s find out if those APRA restrictions are having any impact and, if so, what impact are they having?
Andrew Mirams from Intuitive Finance has been looking at this. Hi, Andrew.
Andrew: Good day, Kevin. How are you?
Kevin: Well, thank you. Andrew, tell us firstly, what is APRA doing? Can we have a look at what, if any, the impact is?
Andrew: Firstly, APRA is the Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority, and they are charged with looking across the banking sector, making sure the banks are lending in a good manner, they have enough capital to meet all their requirements, etc. Over the course of the last year or so, they’ve had some concerns about the amount of investment lending that has been growing.
You and I both know that the share market has its ups and downs, and if there are not as many opportunities for superannuation and people to put that in, they’ll gravitate back to property which is an Australian favorite. It just appears that with low interest rates and the markets moving quite well in Melbourne and Sydney that APRA is a bit concerned that the weightings of investors and owner-occupiers have got a bit out of hand.
They have just recently started to put a few little measures in place to try and cool the markets and maybe restrict some of the lending practices from some of their lenders to investors.
Kevin: What are you seeing? Is it having an impact at all?
Andrew: Well, it is and it isn’t. The first thing that the banks did and the best way to raise capital is to raise your interest rates, so the first thing that everyone noticed was that people, all of a sudden, were paying a little bit more. To an owner-occupier, that’s a concern.
We’ve done a previous interview about this. Would higher interest rates to investors actually have an impact? My opinion then, as it still is now, is investors will invest on the back of what their end goal is and the wealth creation that property gives them. The fact that they have to pay 0.2%, 0.3%, or maybe 0.4% more than what their home might be at the moment isn’t really a great prohibiter. They’re still in an all-time record low interest rate environment.
It’s not going to stop them because that’s still tax deductible. If anything, it’s giving them a greater tax deduction to still hold that property. Good markets still have their wealth creation happening.
The other thing we are seeing is that some of the lenders that were really specifically involved in investment lending, some of the tweaks they’ve made with their servicing capacities and their ability to lend to investors have really been wound back.
I would argue there is probably a little bit of unintended consequence here because some of your niche players and your strong investment lenders have had to really pull back. They’re reporting their numbers are down by up to 40% on inflows, on applications, so it’s had an impact here. If investors are still in the market, what it’s actually done is it means that now the major banks are actually benefiting from that.
I’m not sure they’ve quite got the tweaks right, and I’ve said this to you previously. I do agree with a lot of the measures they’ve implemented, but maybe not all of them.
Kevin: The one thing we do want is a healthy banking situation in Australia. We don’t want to see a repeat of what happened in America. We’re certainly not headed down that path, I wouldn’t have thought.
Andrew: No. Our banks are rated in the top ten in the world, our Big Four. What Australia has done is, through the lessons of the recession we had to have in the 1980s and 1990s and the ups and downs, Australians are pretty good learners. I think our regulators in the past have done a pretty good job at implementing legislation and responsible lending practices and making sure clients can afford them. Our banks are pretty good at that.
At the end of the day, the banks make money by lending money and holding it on deposit, so they want to continue to go with those practices, but there has to be a balance to all of that. That’s where we’ve recently seen the banks coming out with some capital raisings and things like that to make sure they’re holding enough capital, that if anything was to go wrong, they’re well protected.
Kevin: Always good talking to you. Andrew Mirams from Intuitive Finance. Andrew, thank you so much for your time.
Andrew: A pleasure, Kevin. Thank you.
Kevin: By now, you will have received your first video in the Ultimate Guide to Renovation video series with Jane Slack-Smith. Jane joins me.
Jane: Hey, Kevin.
Kevin: To get more information about this fantastic program, use the link on the homepage at Real Estate Talk. Click on that link and you’ll get all the information you need.
In that first video, Jane, you’re walking through a property. I know that you’ve been dealing with a lot of very successful renovators and investors over the years. What have you found are the common traits that stand out when you’re talking to them?
Jane: I have actually distilled it down to six common traits, Kevin. The first one is that successful investors think long-term. They’re not thinking about this current deal, the property they’re looking at at the moment and opportunities. They’re always looking long-term to their long-term goals and then looking at a property with the goggles on that say, “How is this going to get me to my long-term goal?” They’re very long-term in their approach to investing.
Kevin: They don’t take any short-term views. What else?
Jane: They don’t make emotional decisions. They’re not going to walk in and fall in love with a spa bath. They’re going to, once again, look at the property, sum it up, and see “Does it fit the demographic? Is it right for the area? Is it right for their goals and their strategy to achieve what they want to achieve?” So no emotional purchase decisions.
Kevin: I suppose when you take that emotion out, you can remain calm, focused, and pretty steadfast, too.
Jane: Absolutely, and it gives you a clarity. If you’re always assessing everything you do against “Is this going to get me to my goal?” it becomes very clear if a property is going to be an emotional decision, which leads me to number three.
I see that successful investors don’t let fear stop them. They look at the numbers and they know that investment is about the numbers and getting it right. They look at the long term in achieving those numbers, but they don’t stop and get worried about “Are they doing the right thing?” because they’re very clear on what they’re trying to do.
Kevin: That’s because they have a plan and a strategy, isn’t it?
Jane: Absolutely. I talk, obviously, to hundreds of investors every year, and I’m always assessing what people are doing right and what they’re doing wrong. Really, it’s just getting the fundamentals right.
It’s some of the simplest things like buying in the right area and understanding how the property has to be right for that market. We talk about demographics, but what we’re really talking about is “Who is going to buy or rent this property?” and “Does the property I look at satisfy that need?”
Kevin: What about paying the price? Are they always looking for a bargain?
Jane: Not always. Often, successful investors, maybe they’ve done their assessment and they find that there might be some zoning changes, and they’re happy to pay a little bit over market, but the difference between experienced investors and inexperienced investors is that experienced investors know that they’re doing it and inexperienced investors don’t know they’re doing it. Often, they actually are paying over the market.
Kevin: They do seem to have an air of confidence about them, too, backed up by the fact that they know what they’re talking about and they’ve done their research.
Jane: Which brings me to number six on the successful investor tips. What I see successful investors do, the number one thing is they educate themselves. If I had to say the best investment in property investing education that you can make, it’s educating yourself so that you know what to do, when to do it, and how to assess if there is a deal there or not.
Kevin: Also part of what we’re talking about here is they have a plan and a strategy. Part of that would be getting the right finance in place.
Jane: Absolutely. They have to be prepared. I speak to people every week who have found the deal of the century and because they weren’t ready with their finance, it fell over. It’s about being ready to act when you need to act, as well.
Kevin: Great advice. You can follow the success trail that’s being laid down by Jane and her team, The Ultimate Guide to Renovation: The Video Series. We’ve had two already, Jane.
Jane: That’s right.
Kevin: What’s coming up in the future? How many are there in the series?
Jane: The big reveal in Video 3 is the end result of the renovation that we do in Video 2. In Video 1, we would had just gone through and inspected the property and seen what we could have done. At the end of Video 3, you get to see all the beautiful renovation done.
Kevin: Make sure you don’t miss it. There is a link on the homepage of Real Estate Talk. Click on that link right now and you can get all the information.
Jane, thanks for talking to us. We’ll catch you again soon.
Jane: Okay. Bye, Kevin.
Kevin: Shannon Davis is a buyer’s agent in Brisbane, a regular on our show. Shannon has just come back from the UK.
Shannon, thanks for your time.
Shannon: No worries, Kevin.
Kevin: I want to ask you this morning in the show just the differences you have noticed with how agents perform in Australia as compared to the UK. What are the big differences in the industry?
Shannon: I think there are a lot of differences to look at. It’s more of a salaried approach with bonuses in the UK. There’s a lot more in-office time, I tended to see in my time spent in offices there, so fewer open homes and fewer one-on-one interactions, but more hitting the phones and pieces of paper and listings and qualifying that inquiry.
Kevin: In Australia, the big trend right now is building your database and building relationships. That description you’ve just given me doesn’t lead me to believe that that’s actually the business model in the UK.
Shannon: Yes. I think they want lifelong fans and clients. There’s a lot more chain sales, which leads to a buyer becoming another sale because you can sell the vendor’s property then. But in the main, there’s some dominance of portals, as well. Zoopla and Rightmove tend to be the big ones in the UK that have the market share. But you can see some rumblings around about more direct websites getting from the vendor to the buyer, as well.
Kevin: Digital disruption is not new –we’re seeing it in Australia – but is it more acute in the UK right now? In other words, are the portals carving straight through to the buyer and the seller and almost cutting the agent out?
Shannon: Yes, I think so. But the UK tends to be a more complicated sale because of the amount of chain sales, as well, so I don’t think it will lend itself to that artificial intelligence. I think there will need to be a person at arm’s length to coordinate the sale, and I think that will continue for a while to come. But in saying that, there are plenty of entrepreneurs putting money into this space, and it’s something we need to be aware of.
Kevin: Yes. I notice in the UK, too, a number of agents I’ve spoken to over there have told us that the agents are becoming a lot more hyper-local. They’re really getting into their own very small niche markets. Did you notice that, as well?
Shannon: Definitely, and community engagement, like a lot of fetes and council community meetings and things like that. They really are hyping up that involvement. I think print is still in favor, as well, especially in the local publications.
Kevin: Yes. If they’re going to go hyper-local, then it makes sense to be in those smaller local publications.
Shannon: Yes, and I think they’re dealing with a more time-poor consumers – long commutes and long hours and having to get the most efficiencies out of that.
Kevin: Interesting stuff. Shannon Davis, thank you very much. Shannon, of course, a buyer’s agent from Metropole Properties. He’s based in Brisbane, and they are all around Australia. Thanks for your time.
Shannon: No worries, Kevin. Any time.
Kylie Davis Part 2
Kevin: Perceptions of Real Estate Agents – what you really think about real estate agents – is a study that has just recently been released by CoreLogic following some research done by Roy Morgan Research. I was talking earlier in the show to the head of Real Estate Solutions at CoreLogic, Kylie Davis, about the report. We left the conversation at this point.
Kylie: There were four or five key behaviors that an agent does or doesn’t do that will determine if they are excellent, okay, or not great. Those four or five behaviors are things like providing regular feedback. They’re all communication and empathy-based – they’re around providing regular feedback, following up on leads, negotiating strongly and handling the process and managing the expectations of the vendors in a really positive and proactive way.
What came out of that is that the female agents were inevitably stronger in it than a lot of the male agents. They, overwhelmingly, were more excellent at it. Maybe that’s rooted in that whole stereotype that women are better at the softer skills than guys are, but that’s what came out.
Kevin: You call them softer skills. I call them communication skills and empathy. The two words you use – communication and empathy – are really what it comes down to. I think a lot of males are probably too quick in the conversation, whereas females get a lot more in touch with the feelings or the emotions.
Kylie: What we took out of that is don’t hire an agent just because they’re a woman; that’s not going to mean that they’re better at this sort of stuff. What it means is really look at the importance of these key behavioral traits and find an agent who is good at that regardless of what sex they are. It’s possible that they are more likely to be female, but not necessarily. Look for an agent who is warm, is human, who you enjoy sitting down with…
Kevin: …Who you can relate to.
Kylie: …Who you can really relate to, and who you feel is going to do the right thing by you and that you can see from their website and from the way they run their business, is a good, strong way to run their business.
I think one of the issues consumers have when they’re trying to choose an agent is that it always tends to be a bit like speed dating. You combine that idea that you’re selling the most important asset and valuable asset you have with that whole speed dating element of “Gosh, I have to find an agent really quickly.” That’s always a recipe for a bit of a disaster.
What the insights showed us was that taking the time to get to know someone, seeing someone in action, finding out if they run a good business, if they’re a decent human being, all of those things will really help ensure that your experience with your agent and selling your home is a very positive one as opposed to just ordinary or disastrous.
Kevin: I’m talking to Kylie Davis, head of Real Estate Solutions at CoreLogic. This is the Perceptions of Real Estate Agents report that has just been released. Kylie, how important is years of experience?
Kylie: It’s a bit of a two-edged sword, we found. Most of our respondents had around the ten-year experience mark, but a lot of the people who we surveyed – and we asked for comments the whole way through the survey – those people who have been in the industry ten years or more, if you think about what the market has done over the last decade, have had some great times and have had some bad times.
The fact that an agent has a lot of experience might mean that they’re a little bit jaded. Again, it comes down to “What are their human skills like? What’s their EQ – rather than their IQ – like as an agent?”
We also had a lot of agents who had very young or inexperienced agents who did a brilliant job. The reason those agents did a brilliant job is because they weren’t burdened by the sheer volume of what’s happened in the past and carrying all that with them. They were very enthusiastic and they were very keen to connect with their clients and get those clients a great result. The fact that they didn’t have a huge amount of experience meant that they were working so much harder for that client.
Kevin: One of the most incredible findings for me in the whole survey was the fact that there is a decline in confidence that consumers have in their real estate agents that they experience as they go through that sale process. Can we have a quick look at that?
Kylie: This was one of the really key insights that came out of it. We asked the survey respondents a lot of questions and asked them for a lot of feedback around what happened. What came out of that is that at the beginning of the process, when you’ve just signed up, you have just decided that you’re going to use an agent and you’re really excited and enthusiastic about what the process is going to be.
58% of those that we surveyed said that they were confident that their agent was going to do a great job just before the sales process began, just after they had signed up. What happened then, though, was that during the process, that number dropped to 50% in the middle of the sale process, so 8% of people suddenly weren’t feeling that confident about their agent anymore. Most of those people were becoming dubious about how their agent was going.
By the end of the process, after the sale had gone through, only 41% were confident and happy that their agent had handled the process exactly the way that they were expecting at the beginning of the whole thing.
When we delved deeper into those numbers, what we found was that, again, communication, empathy, doing what you said you would do, all of those things are completely behind that fall off of confidence.
At the beginning of the process, the agent has said, “Yes, I’m going to call you after every open for inspection. I’m going to report back on what the feedback is. I’m going to do all these things to make you feel secure.” Agents who did not do that completely lost people during the process.
The whole discussion around “You told me at the beginning that my house was worth $500,000. Now you’re trying to get me to take an offer of $360,000. What happened?” That’s not so much a play at the moment while the market’s hot. But agents who are out of communication with their clients or avoiding communication with their clients, who are not proactive about informing them every step of the way, engaging with them, and understanding where their heads are at during the process, lose the confidence of their clients very, very quickly.
The reason that’s important or terrible for agents is that those people then don’t recommend those agents, and as we discussed at the beginning, recommendations by people or seeing an agent do a great job is the most important way for an agent to get new business.
Kevin: There were certainly some fabulous lessons in here for agents, but I can tell you equally, great lessons for anyone who is looking at maybe selling or buying a property, too. It’s a great report. It’s put out by CoreLogic RP Data. It’s called Perceptions of Real Estate Agents.
We’re going to make that available on our website. Have a look for the link. Have a look for this interview that I’ve just done with Kylie, and we’ll have it attached to that, as well.
Kylie David, head of Real Estate Solutions at CoreLogic, thank you so much for your time.
Kylie: Thanks, Kevin. It’s been great.