Highlights from this week:
- Where the smart money is headed
- Avoiding the property spruikers
- How to start again
- Lawyers warn against investing with family and friends
- The facts about land tax
Why not to buy property with friends and relations – Peter Maloney
Kevin: It always seems like a great idea: if you want to get into the property market, maybe you could do it with a friend, maybe you could do it with family. It sounds like a tremendous idea and we’ve spoken about it in the show in the past, but I want to talk about it again because there’s some very interesting research that’s just been released by Global X, where they found that 45% of lawyers and conveyances would not recommend doing exactly that.
Joining me to talk about the results of that – and maybe some ways you can get around it – Peter Maloney from Global X.
Peter, thanks again for your time.
Peter: Great to be with you again, Kevin. Thank you.
Kevin: I have to say I’m not terribly surprised by this, because so many things could go wrong when you do buy a property or go into business with family and friends, Peter.
Peter: Absolutely. Let’s look at the often-told story: we’ve got two mates having a beer at the pub, each of them has saved $30,000 and want to buy a property, but the deposit they need is $60,000, so they decide to buy it together. At the time they decide to buy it, it’s great, everything is happy and good. But everyone’s life changes.
Three years down the track, one of the mates decides to get married and his new partner says “Well, you need to sell that property because we need to buy one for ourselves.” And this is where it starts to fall apart.
Good intentions on day one are fantastic, but life changes. And lawyers, solicitors all understand that at the time the property transaction has been done, there isn’t an adjacent contract to govern how that relationship would work.
Kevin: We’ll talk about what you should do if you do decide to go down that path in just a moment, but just talk a little bit about why this is happening. Obviously, it’s to do with housing affordability and you painted that wonderful picture of two guys in the pub having a beer. They need to come up with a deposit; maybe the best way to do it is to do it together.
Are we going to see that continue? Do you think this co-buying needs to continue?
Peter: I think so. It’s well and truly entrenched. It’s also not only mates doing it together, but the other large category is parents: parents lending the deposit to the child or parents acting as a guarantor for the loan or for the mortgage instrument. What ends up happening is the parent therefore has the right to have their name on the title. They really own a stake in the property.
But again, life changes. What happens if the parents divorce and that deposit that went into the child’s home now becomes part of the family estate as part of a family law matter?
Kevin: It’s all great until it comes unstuck, isn’t it?
Peter: That’s right.
Kevin: And then the best way to make an enemy is to go into business with a friend or with family.
Peter: Yes. Well, often they work, and sometimes they don’t. Hopefully more often than not, they do work.
Kevin: The difficult conversation is one that I think you should have with a solicitor or a lawyer, and that is you have to work out what the exit strategy is. Before you go into an agreement, “How are we going to pull this thing apart?”
Peter: That’s 100% correct, and that’s the advice from the solicitors as a result of the survey that Global X did most recently, which is they recommend against entering into a property transaction that we’ve just described if you don’t have an adjacent agreement.
What’s going to govern how the two parties will engage, and what governs the termination of the agreement? What if one sells and the other one doesn’t want to sell? Has one got the right to purchase the other one out? And how do you really try to keep it out of the courts when things go wrong?
Kevin: It really is best to go and talk to a solicitor, because they’ve probably seen all of these scenarios unfold over the years and they can bring their experience to the table. If I were to go in with a family member, we’d probably say “Well, look, it’s okay if you decide to sell. At that time, just let me know and we’ll pull all this apart.” It doesn’t quite work that easily.
Peter: No. That’s right, and solicitors are experienced at this. And they see it not just in the context of a single property transaction but they see it in the day-to-day lives of people where they’re creating wills or estates, family law matters, commercial litigation, insolvency or bankruptcy. And property is just one asset, so they are highly experienced about how to create a contract that’s suitable to both parties.
I often make the analogy, Kevin, that it’s a pretty tough and sometimes confronting conversation to sit with a lawyer and talk about the outcome of a will, but this is a bit about what it’s doing on the property side. You have to be prepared to have that conversation today to avoid any problems in the future.
Kevin: The other thing I’d like to mention, Peter, in support of what you’re saying is this is not just a group of solicitors trying to drum up more business, because you’ve received some pretty good support from the Real Estate Institute of Australia. Their president, Malcolm Gunning has in fact come out and said that this is something that any buyer needs to do.
Peter: Absolutely. And this is absolutely not about lining the pockets of solicitors. This is about protecting a consumer before they enter into a contract that they have the right advice as to how to get out of that contract if they need to at some time in the future. Because the reality of life is individual situations and circumstances will change.
We look back at our own lives, and all your listeners can look back at their lives ten years ago and say “Well, my life is not the same.” We don’t know what we don’t know, but lawyers and solicitors are there to help us prevent problems in the future.
Kevin: Peter, just before I let you go, talk about Global X for a moment. Really gathering a lot of pace. Tell me about Global X. What do you do, and why do you think it’s becoming more and more popular?
Peter: Global X is really at the heart of property. Not often does the consumer see our name, but the solicitors and conveyancers see us all day every day. We, in essence, do three things. We are Australia’s largest property settlement service, so we’re the parties who help exchange contracts, exchange funds, and help the consumer move into their house on the settlement day.
We supply regulatory data to lawyers and conveyancers, and we wrap all of that around some workflow software called MetaCenter to help lawyers and property lawyers manage their day-to-day office.
Kevin: Yes, electronic settlements are more and more becoming the norm. I think we’re trusting more the technology we can get online now. It makes things a lot faster. And the point you just made there, too, I think is a good one, is that you can actually track what’s happening and look at it in the global sense.
Peter: Absolutely, without any doubt. And on the point of electronic conveyancing, it’s faster, it’s safer, it’s far more secure. Vendors are getting their payments not by bank check or three-day clearance any more; they get them the moment a settlement has occurred. Purchasers can bump in much quicker to their property than what they could in the paper-based world.
Kevin: Good talking to you. Peter Maloney there from Global X. Thanks for your time, Peter.
Peter: Great. Thanks, Kevin.
Land Tax and the facts – Ian Rodrigues
Kevin: We’re going to answer a question that came in from Cathy. It’s a very complex question; we’ll unpack it as best we can. To help us with that, Ian Rodrigues joins me from Bishop Collins.
Ian, this is to do with land tax, and we’ll talk about how we’re going to talk about this after I detail the question. Firstly, hello and welcome to the show, Ian.
Ian: Always good to be here, Kevin.
Kevin: This is the first time we spoke in 2018, so it’s nice to have you back in the show, and I appreciate your excellent input into this.
The question from Cathy is “Is it true regarding no land tax payable if three parties own a property in different name combinations?” It goes into a lot more detail, which we’ll probably talk about as we get into it, but let’s talk about land tax.
Where do most people get confused, Ian?
Ian: I think land tax is one of those ones that people get completely confused on every part of it. To cover off for listeners to understand how it works is a bit of a process you need to go through. But the fundamental point people need to understand is land tax is a state tax. So, it’s not like income tax, capital gains tax, or GST; it is applied by each state.
And of course, every state does it quite differently. They all have different rates and thresholds and exemptions and all those things. But at least it’s pretty clear in which state your property lies, I would think.
Kevin: On your website, would you accommodate for this as well if we wanted to know state by state. If I had a question about land tax in a particular state, if I went to your website, is there some help there for me?
Ian: Probably not, but the best website to go to is the relevant Office of State Revenue in the state. They all have excellent websites, and they have excellent fact sheets and examples. And if you’re that way inclined, you can certainly read through and get an understanding of how it works, which I recommend for all property owners, rather than just handing it to your accountant or advisor and let them work it out, because there are opportunities to minimize land tax by owning properties in different states.
So, the first point was the fact that it is state-based. All the rates, taxes, thresholds and exemptions are very different. Of course, people need to understand you don’t pay land tax generally on your principal place of residence. And the definition of that is very closely aligned to the capital gains tax exemption as well. So, that’s the good news.
Kevin: The bad news?
Ian: The bad news is that there are a lot of exemptions that apply to farming land and things like that, but for most investment property, land tax applies.
The next point people stumble across is the fact that land tax applies to the land value, not the market value of the property.
In New South Wales at the moment, the threshold – if I can read the website correctly – is $629,000 of land value. If you have a property worth $629,000 that has a building on it, it is highly unlikely you’re over the threshold. So, people need to understand that it’s on the unimproved land value, which is assessed by the Valuer General, generally every three years. But you get that on a notice.
My tip for most of your listeners is if you own property that may be subject to land tax one day, register for land tax. You may get a zero assessment every year because you’re under the threshold, but when you finally do go over the threshold, you’ll automatically get your notice of assessment and be told what you owe.
The trap for people is that they forget about it, they’re unaware of it, and when you go to sell the property… This is what I guess the government loves about land tax: you cannot escape this. Because if you go to sell a property, you have to get a thing called a land tax clearance certificate saying that the land tax has been paid. So, if you haven’t paid it for ten years, you’re going to be paying it.
Kevin: What about a couple who own a couple of properties pre-marriage, then they get married? How is the land tax calculated in a situation like that?
Ian: The simple act of being married doesn’t change. If mom owned a property and dad owned a property, if they’re both under the threshold, they’re still both under the threshold.
This is where it is very confusing, so I’ll try my best here. Land tax is assessed on properties that you own jointly as a group. So, if mom and dad owned an investment property together, they’re assessed on the one threshold together.
Every property that you own jointly with other people is assessed jointly, and then you’re also assessed individually. So, if you own another investment property in a 50% share with mom, you’re assessed on your 100% property land value and the 50% land value on the other one, which are added together to see if you’re over the threshold.
I think that explains it well, but it just confuses a lot of people, and your questioner here has all sorts of issues.
Kevin: Cathy, it’s very hard for us to answer this so succinctly. What we are going to do – I’ve spoken to Ian about this off air – we’re going to put together a special program that will dig into this. I think it’s about six parts we’d need to put it into, Ian. I’ll record that with Ian. That’ll explain this in great detail and answer all your questions. So, watch out for that. I’ll record it with Ian, then we’ll let you know how it’s available. And to subscribers to our show, you’ll get that as a free download.
Ian, thank you for helping this question with Cathy and also for the offer to do that special program. I think it’s going to be very valuable for all of us.
Ian: Yes. I have found over many years that land tax is probably one of the most misunderstood and confused taxes. When people understand it… I hate to say this and I know I haven’t met too many people who like paying land tax, I don’t know many people who like paying tax full stop, but land tax seems to cause the most – I don’t know – pain factor.
Ian: Yes. And it’s a very direct tax. You have to write a check for it. A lot of other taxes – GST and income tax – are taken out before you see it. So, it’s very visible, but when people understand how it works, it’s actually one of the most equitable and efficient taxes we should have.
But your listeners are going to have to hang with me to understand why I say that, otherwise I’ll just get hate mail now.
Kevin: We’ll put it all together for you. Watch out for it. We’ll let you know through the shows how you can actually get that free download.
Ian Rodrigues from Bishop Collins has been my guest. And Cathy, good news for you, because you’ve given us such a difficult question – and we’ve answered it the best way we could – we’re going to give you a 12-month subscription to Your Investment Property magazine for your efforts and for your question. So, thank you for that. I’ll be in touch tell you how you can get a hold of it.
Ian, thank you very much for your time.
Ian: My pleasure, Kevin. Talk soon.
Property Investment Sharks – Mike Harvey
Kevin: We have told you in the past about looking out for sharks. These are people who are out to sell you something. But how do you tell the signs? I was interested to get a book the other day, which is called How To Jump Into Property Investing Without Being Eaten By Sharks. It’s a book that’s written by Mike Harvey, who has his own business. We’ll tell u about that as well. Mike joins me to talk about the book and why he wrote it.
G’day, Mike. How are you?
Mike: Good morning, Kevin. I’m glad to hear you’ve got a copy already.
Kevin: It’s a good read. Do you think it’s getting worse, Mike? What’s the purpose behind you writing this book?
Mike: Good question. I’ve been investing myself for many years, I’ve gone through my share of divorces and so forth. So, I’ve lost property and changed property over time and learned a lot through that. That’s not the method I recommend to anybody by the same token.
I’ve bought property. I’ve even worked for companies that sold property and then got bitten a bit myself and eventually started a company that would help people the whole process and connect people.
The purpose behind that – and the purpose behind the book – really is to get the message out to others that many aspects of buying property are not that hard but are also vital. You can make a mistake buying a cup of coffee and it costs you five minutes of heartache, but if you make a mistake buying property and pay too much, it can take you years to recover.
Kevin: What are the tell-tale signs, Mike, that we could be dealing with someone who maybe we shouldn’t be?
Mike: That’s the best question – rather than “Who are the sharks?” – because I can talk about a particular shark, but it doesn’t really help anybody unless they’re dealing with them. The behavior of sharks can be different. Like in terms of sharks in the ocean, some of them just want to eat you in one bite and some will nibble away at you.
The tell-tale signs come down to their behavior. Look at where they make their money from, Kevin. If they’re making money from charging you a fee up front, that can be fine in some circumstances. But if you’re going to go and buy a nice car, you don’t want to pay the salesman for the process you’re going through. So, I don’t believe people really need to be charging a fee to give you advice on what property to buy from them.
The second part is really around where else they make their money from. Many have undisclosed third-party commissions. So if they’re connecting you to a finance broker or finance advisor, mortgage broker, property manager, insurance people, accountants, a whole range of people who can help you, ask them if they’re making money from there. Are they making money from you by connecting you, or are they wanting to make sure that they introduce you to somebody who’s going to help you?
Kevin: Shouldn’t they be disclosing those sorts of referral fees anyway, Mike?
Mike: Yes, they should, and that’s part of the requirements for them, but some bury that quite deep and many people don’t read the full disclosure. In fact, people I was involved with in the past simply did not disclose that; they got away with it.
Kevin: A few moments ago, you mentioned that the advice that these people give should not necessarily be charged for. Isn’t it reasonable, though, to assume that if someone has good education and is providing a good service, they should be able to make a charge for that type of advice, Mike?
Mike: Absolutely, and I’ll put a caveat on that by saying there’s no should about what people do. It’s an opinion of mine that really if they’re selling property, for sure, they don’t need to charge you a fee for the presales advice.
For example, a financial advisor, many will charge a fee for service, which personally I tend to like because they’re charging you for what they’re telling you. Many will have third-party payments and they have to disclose that, as you mentioned. And that’s fine if that’s the way they make their money, but that should be out, open, and declared to you right up front.
If they’re charging you a fee for their advice, that’s one thing. If they’re charging you a fee and then making money on the property and making money on everybody else they connect you with, I’ve got a few problems with that.
Kevin: Yes. I think one of the warning signs we’ve put out is the fact that if you go to an advisor, they’re giving you an advice and then they say “Look, here’s a great property for you to buy,” in other words, it’s one that they’re representing. There’s a likelihood they’re going to be getting that double whammy, Mike.
Mike: Yes, there is. My journey has come through buying property, then working in the industry and then being so offended, I suppose, and upset by it that I’ve started a company called On Your Side Investment. So it’s really a matter of rather than having stock that people sell – and therefore they’re selling you their problem – it’s best to find somebody who can then source you property, which is what we want to do on the business side.
When we’re helping people, we’ll find out what their strategy is and develop a strategy, and then it’s a matter of “What’s the best widget?” I call them. So, are they going to buy an older property? Is that what’s best for them? Not usually the best case, but it can be in some cases. Or is it buying a new property? What type of property is that? Is it townhouse, is it house with land? Is it close to the city, or is it a bit further out? All sorts of questions like that.
Everybody’s situation is different, which is why if you go to a seminar that is selling you $5000 courses or CD packs, etc., and they say to you “Look, we’ve got ten of these perfect properties, first in gets best dressed,” I have problems with that because there’s not one size fits all when it comes to property.
Kevin: Absolutely. The book is called How To Jump Into Property Investing Without Being Eaten By Sharks. It’s written by my guest, Mike Harvey.
Mike, thank you so much for your time.
Mike: You’re welcome, Kevin. Thank you.
Sydney prices not so hot – Peter Koulizos
Kevin: Less than 4% of property investment experts believe that Sydney offers solid prospects for 2018. That’s according to a new survey. The Property Investment Professionals of Australia – better known as PIPA – their 2018 member survey found that that was the result. Joining me to talk about that is the man who heads up PIPA, Peter Koulitzos.
Peter, were you surprised by that?
Peter: I found it very interesting, Kevin, because most of our members who replied to the survey are from Sydney, so they have probably experienced first-hand the huge increase in property prices that Sydney has had and then the subsequent drop in rental yields, and they just feel that Sydney is probably over-priced at the minute and there are better prospects further afield.
Kevin: We will look at the areas where investors are likely to focus, Peter. But as you point out, rental yields are critical for investors, heavily influencing their decision.
Kevin: Certainly, the rental yield is going to help pay the bills, and if you don’t have a good rental yield, you’re going to struggle to pay the interest component let alone council rates, water rates, repairs, and maintenance.
Kevin: Correct me if I’m wrong, I think it was some PIPA research that unearthed the fact that the Sydney property market really was only playing catchup for the last five years.
Peter: That’s right, Kevin. Really, Sydney hasn’t done much at all. In the last 15 years, it’s been the worst performing capital city. But in the last five years, it’s been the best performing capital city. As you said, it’s just been playing catch-up, and it certainly has done that, because Sydney property prices have gone up much more in proportion to their rent. So, for investors, the yields are quite low.
Kevin: Out of the survey, Peter, what did you find were the biggest concerns for property investors?
Peter: The professionals in the industry, their biggest concern was the tightening of lending criteria. APRA has had a very big influence on property and the lending of money for property, in particular for investors. Generally speaking, investors need a greater deposit than owner-occupiers, investors pay a higher interest rate than owner-occupiers, investors typically would be the ones who take out interest-only loans compared to owner-occupiers, and interest only loans have higher interest rates than owner-occupier loans.
So, it’s that arena that the professionals in the property investment industry are concerned about, because it’s like using a huge sledgehammer to fix up a small problem that could be fixed up with a very delicate hammer, but it’s just affected all property investors.
Whether you’ve been investing in Sydney or not – which is where the main problem was according to APRA – it’s just affected all investors all over the country.
Kevin: As you say, it was a bit like taking a sledgehammer to bash in a pin.
Peter: That’s right.
Kevin: How do property investors feel about higher interest rates? Do they think they’re on the horizon?
Peter: A number of property experts think that interest rates will increase this year. Even I don’t think that they’re going to go any further down, so the best they can do is stay where they are. But assuming the U.S. economy picks up – which it is – the global economy also picks up, which means the Australian economy will pick up, and interest rates will have to go up.
Not much – we’re certainly not going back to the bad old days of late last century where they were double, digit, but we may see a 0.25% increase in interest rate rises by the end of the year.
Kevin: Let’s get back to where property investors are likely to spend their money. What did you find out? What do they believe are the prospects for 2018?
Peter: They think the best prospects for 2018 are the same as they were for 2017, which was Brisbane. Almost half of our members responded that Brisbane was the best place to invest in in 2018.
That doesn’t mean that if you invest this year, by the end of the year, you’ll make a motser; that just means this is a good year to buy in Brisbane. And in the future, whether that’s one, two or five years, you should do very, very well.
Kevin: It’s interesting, because I think in that research that I mentioned earlier from PIPA about the Sydney market, if you look around at the improvers over that 15-year period, which was the period of that study, I think the Brisbane market showed an improvement of about 160% – I’m going from memory now – which I think was pretty much in line with the weighted average of the capital cities.
Peter: That’s right. Over the last 15 years, Brisbane has performed very well, and I think one of the reasons our members think that Brisbane is going to do well in the future is because Brisbane needs to play catch-up, because Brisbane – like Adelaide – has virtually done nothing since the Global Financial Crisis, which is now almost ten years ago.
I think the catalyst for this interest in Brisbane is the inter-state migration, which typically happens at this time of the property cycle, which is when Sydney property prices are at their highest, the price difference between houses and Brisbane and Sydney is at its greatest.
So, the people in Sydney or New South Wales who are 50, 55, or more and they’re not living in their first home – so their home is typically above the median priced home; let’s call it $1.5 million – they could buy a house in Brisbane or South East Queensland for about $500,000 or $600,000 and be left with a substantial amount of money, which if they can’t retire on can certainly semi-retire on.
Kevin: Or they could buy two, Peter, couldn’t they?
Peter: That’s right, two for the price of one. That’s right, Kevin.
Kevin: The point you made there about the Brisbane market and possibly having to play catch-up, I think that’s one of the strengths of that Brisbane market is the fact that it’s just a steady improver. There’s nothing wrong with that kind of growth rate if it’s over a consistent period of time.
Peter: Yes, that’s a very safe way to go. Unlike Sydney investors – who would be very reticent to buy now because property prices are going backwards and who knows how long they’re going to go backwards for – people in Brisbane are fairly confident that this time next year, their house will be worth more, and this time in two years’ time, it’ll be worth even more again. So, it’s slow and steady as she goes in Brisbane.
Kevin: That kind of growth rate does actually indicate that the property will double in value every eight to ten years.
Peter: That’s correct.
Kevin: So, I think if you’re happy to be a steady investor, that’s why the Brisbane market is so good.
Peter: Yes, that’s right. It certainly provides a lot of reliability, and investors can sleep well at night, which is a very important factor for them to consider.
Kevin: It’s always good talking to you. Peter Koulitzos. Peter is from PIPA, the Property Investment Professionals of Australia. Thank you for your time, Peter.
Peter: Thank you, Kevin.
Rebuilding after divorce – Rob Flux
Kevin: Earlier this week, I released a video that I did with Rob Flux. Rob is featured in the current edition of Your Investment Property magazine as a success story. I want to take a different tack from the video. Go and have a look at that because we talk a lot about Rob’s strategy, how he’s built that over time. But I want to talk in this interview about mindset.
Rob, firstly, welcome to the show and thanks again for your time.
Rob: No problems, Kevin. Thank you.
Kevin: I want to talk to you about the difficulty of restarting. And just a bit of a backstory here, you’ve built a very healthy portfolio, which has now allowed you to retire, but you’ve done it twice because of a divorce. Now, we don’t want to focus too much on that, but I’m interested to hear from you what happened after that, the fact that you pretty much had to rebuilt it all.
How did you go about it? What was the inspiration, Rob?
Rob: The inspiration was… I guess, first of all it took me 20 years to build it the first time around, so the inspiration was to try to find a way that didn’t take me 20 years again. But the inspiration came from reading a book from Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad, which really gave me the impetus to try and turn this into a business rather than a part-time hobby, which it was previously.
Kevin: How important was mindset? Is that what you discovered out of that book?
Rob: Yes, absolutely. I would say that 20% of it is skill, 30% of it is effort, and 50% of it is mindset.
Kevin: Yes, makes it pretty important, doesn’t it?
How were you financially at that time? Did you have the capital to get going, or did you have to re-invent how to do it without any money?
Rob: I won’t say that I was completely broke, but I certainly didn’t have the wealth that I started with. I did originally own my first house outright at the age of 24, and at the age of 38, I no longer owned my house. So, I was starting from a fairly low base.
The challenging part is there are always three problems you need to solve with finances. One is equity in order to come up with the deposit to purchase a property. Two is serviceability in order to service the debt. And three is cashflow in order to run the deal. So, you need a combination of all three to get across the line.
What I found is that with the right mindset, I could be very creative in how I did the deal so that I didn’t necessarily have to be the one who provided all three of those elements, and that I could work with the vendor or third-party joint venture partners to come up with the missing elements of that, and that I didn’t have to solve the problem all by myself.
Kevin: A lot of learning inside that, and it’s been a great journey. Now, you’ve offered people the opportunity to learn from your experience, so you’ve developed your own network group, which we did mention in that video. But I want to mention it again because I think it’s a great way for people to learn from, I guess, the mistakes of others, but also the successes of others.
Tell me about that network group and why you stated it.
Rob: We’ve been running it for a little bit over six years. It started out as a bunch of mates sitting around a kitchen table all trying to help each other across the line with their own projects, very much in a “pay it forward” type capacity where we were helping each other first knowing that if we helped the other person, they’d be able to help us when we needed it.
That outgrew our kitchen into the lounge, and then outgrew that and went public in about June of 2012. We have close to 750 people in that network group now, and we get between 60 and 75 people to every meeting that we run once a month as a meetup group called Property Developer Network.
Kevin: Okay, and that’s how you can find it if you want to get along to that. It’s a Brisbane-based group called Property Developer Network. If you Google that, you’re going to find two websites. The other one I want to talk to you about as well as the network group is the two-day event that you’re running in May. That’s focused on mindset.
Does that have a lot to do with the journey we’ve talked about in this chat?
Rob: Yes, absolutely. I’m going to reveal a little bit of my soul in that. It’s on the 5th and 6th of May. It’s called the Psychology of Property Development. It’s really trying to get people in touch with some of the challenges that they’re going to face with that mindset challenge. There are always going to be obstacles on the way, but it’s really about whether you treat those obstacles as something that is in the way or something that’s on the way to your success.
Kevin: Very good. So those dates again: did you say it was the 5th and 6th?
Rob: 5th and 6th of May.
Kevin: And that’s being held in Brisbane?
Rob: It is being held in Brisbane. It is open to everyone. I have people coming from Melbourne and Sydney to that event. We also run other events as well, but that really I think is the crux of what people need in order to kickstart their journey.
Kevin: Okay. Go google it; it’s Property Developer Network. You’ll find those two websites there for the network group and also for that two-day event that’s coming up in May.
My guest has been Rob Flux. Rob, thank you again, and congratulations on that story in Your Investment Property magazine. And I really appreciate you giving me a double-up here. We did the video, which we released earlier in the week, and it’s on the website right now of course in the Your Investment Property channel, and this interview too.
Rob, thanks very much for your time.
Rob: No problem. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, listeners.