{"id":9854,"date":"2016-11-17T10:00:48","date_gmt":"2016-11-16T23:00:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=9854"},"modified":"2016-11-17T10:00:48","modified_gmt":"2016-11-16T23:00:48","slug":"are-great-property-investors-born-or-made-anything-is-possible-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-doing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/are-great-property-investors-born-or-made-anything-is-possible-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-doing\/","title":{"rendered":"Are great property investors born or made? + \u201cAnything is possible when you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing\u201d."},"content":{"rendered":"

 
\nWere you told from a very young age that if you want to succeed at something, you must put in time, hard work and importantly, practice.\u00a0 Successful property investors are not born with a \u201cHow to\u201d manual and they certainly don\u2019t rely on luck. Michael Yardney<\/strong><\/a> shares what he has learnt from working with these top people over the years.
\nREA, or as it is better known realestate.com.au, has been tracking demand for Australian property since about 2013. They have been looking at the number of people wanting \u00a0to buy a property and contrast that to the supply of properties and they are starting to get some really interesting results.\u00a0 We discuss that with Nerida Connisbee<\/strong> who is that group\u2019s Chief Economist.
\nWe get an update on foreign buyers and their influence on the Australian property market from the head of Juwai in Australia \u2013 Gavin Norris<\/strong>. Juwai, of course, is the number one Chinese international property portal.
\nOur feature guest is Charles Tarbey<\/strong>, CEO, founder and owner of Century 21 Australasia.\u00a0 He tells us how he was able to buy his first house \u2013 in Sydney \u2013 at the tender age of 18.\u00a0 As he says \u201canything is possible when you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing\u201d.
\nWe talk affordability with the Victorian Chief Executive Officer of the Urban Development Institute of Australia, Danni Addison<\/strong> who says \u201cthe government needs to have a courageous conversation with the community about this burning issue\u201d.
\n <\/p>\n

Transcripts:<\/strong><\/h4>\n

What we can learn from tracking demand – Nerida Connisbee<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I\u2019m joined now by Nerida Connisbee who is from the REA group, Chief Economist, of course, with RealEstate.com.au.
\nNerida, thanks again for your time.
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks for having me.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Tell me about the Group Property Demand Index. What\u2019s that about?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>What we\u2019ve been doing is tracking demand for property in the Australian market since about 2013. Basically, how we track it is we look at the number of people looking to buy a property and contrast that to the supply of properties. We\u2019re starting to get some really interesting results, and probably the most interesting is Sydney and Melbourne are now at record levels in terms of demand.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>That, of course, begs me to ask the question about supply and demand. There\u2019s a lot of talk about an oversupply or a lack of demand for some of the inner-city areas around Brisbane as an example. Does the index show that?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>It does. It\u2019s interesting; <\/b>Queensland sits on about the Australian average for apartment demand and also for housing demand. I think what\u2019s happening is that although Queensland is sitting in that position, it\u2019s really places like the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast that are really propping up that apartment demand. I think most people would be pretty nervous at the moment with Brisbane CBD, and I think the strength of other markets is really offsetting that.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>What was the number one most-in-demand suburb around Australia?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>The number one most-in-demand suburb is a suburb called Warrandyte in the northeast of Melbourne. It\u2019s an outer-suburban area, a pretty leafy area. It\u2019s an area that has a fairly large diversity of homes from fairly low-cost homes to high-cost luxury homes. That was the number one for housing.
\nFor apartments, it was Manly in Sydney \u2013 beachside, very popular not just with people from Australia but also globally, as well.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I see that the South Australian market made the top ten list. Did that surprise you?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>It did surprise me. On average, South Australia sits between Queensland and WA, so it\u2019s not a high-demand market. But certainly, there was a suburb, the suburb of Norwood, that came in in the top ten for houses. I think the fact that Adelaide is pretty affordable from a national perspective was part of it, but also, that\u2019s a really great suburb in Adelaide, as well, so I think you\u2019d have a lot of local people wanting to buy there as well.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Fair enough. <\/b>You mentioned earlier about Sydney and Melbourne and how they\u2019re still high in demand. Do you see them remaining hot for some time to come?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>The Index certainly shows that they will remain hot. We\u2019re seeing rapid increase in interest. What was interesting, though, was apartment demand in Melbourne was on the Australian average, so the fact that there have been so many apartments built in Melbourne is really moderating those demand levels. But if we look at houses, we\u2019re seeing a very different situation.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s a report out \u2013 that we\u2019ll be talking about in the show, too \u2013 from one particular commentator who says that unit prices around Australia are going to drop by anything up to 15% to 20% over the next couple of years. What\u2019s your take on that?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>I think it\u2019s simplistic to look at the apartment market in Australia as one market. If we have a look at places like Brisbane CBD or Melbourne CBD, the reality is that we\u2019re seeing a large amount of development, and it\u2019s quite possible that we will see a drop in prices.
\nIf we look at Sydney, though, Sydney is still seeing very high demand for apartments. We\u2019re seeing relatively little development from a national perspective and also a historical perspective, so I think the situation in Sydney will be quite different.
\nOverall, I\u2019d be surprised if we saw as high a drop nationally of 15% in apartments, but I do think that perhaps we may see some apartment types in some locations dropping.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Nerida Connisbee is my guest, Chief Economist at the REA group. Let\u2019s move to affordability for a moment, because I\u2019m keen to know from you whether affordability is the big driver. What makes properties popular?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>Affordability does seem to be a big driver at the moment. We have a look at suburbs that are moving up in popularity. They do seem to be those that are more affordable. Particularly Tasmania featured quite strongly in those suburbs. Places like Bellerive, Hobart move quite quickly up our list of popularity. So affordability is a huge driver.
\nNot so much in Sydney. Sydney is a little bit different at the moment. The suburbs that are getting more popular aren\u2019t necessarily affordable, but we are seeing a bit of a movement to the central coast in Sydney because of how expensive Sydney is.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>How much of this is driven by monetary policy? Is that actually what\u2019s distorting the market \u2013 rate cuts leading to an acceleration in prices? Is this what\u2019s making the problem of affordability even worse?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, definitely. I think if you look at what is happening with monetary policy, the Reserve Bank felt comfortable cutting rates \u2013 the two rate cuts that we saw this year \u2013 because they thought prices are moderating \u2013 and look, at that time, data suggested that prices were moderating, so they made the two cuts. But certainly, when we look at our Index, demand really surged following those two cuts.
\nOur Index surged in terms of demand, but we also saw quite strong price growth, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne. It\u2019s a really difficult one, because historically, we have been reliant on monetary policy to drive the economy, but at the moment, it does seem to be messing around with the housing market.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Jobs, too, are also a big driver of where people can live, aren\u2019t they? I know affordability is important. If affordability is that important, are we seeing a loss of people out of Sydney because it is so unaffordable?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, we are. Sydney does attract the most overseas migrants in Australia, but it\u2019s been losing quite a lot of people over the past decade. Part of that would have been jobs during the mining boom, so Sydney would have lost quite a few people to WA and Queensland as a result of that. But certainly at the moment, they\u2019re still losing people, and I think affordability has a lot to do with that.
\nThe fact that Sydney is so unaffordable is going to be a brake on economic growth. If you can\u2019t get the right sort of people, if you can\u2019t get a diversity of different types of people living in your city, then it does really lead to problems with economic growth.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Bernard Salt, of course, wrote an article a couple of weekends ago, and we spoke to him on the show last week about the cost of avocado on toast. Is it that simple?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>No, it\u2019s not. If you have a look at the rate of growth in house prices, particularly in places like Sydney and Melbourne, cutting a few breakfasts isn\u2019t going to cut it in terms of keeping up with price growth. If you have a look at how the ratio of household income to prices changed, particularly since the time when baby boomers were in the market, that ratio has really, really increased.
\nSydney is the second most unaffordable city in the world, after Hong Kong, and unlike Hong Kong, we don\u2019t have the huge social housing backup that Hong Kong does. It\u2019s quite simplistic to say that if younger people just stopped spending on fun stuff, they\u2019d be able to afford a home, when the reality is no, they wouldn\u2019t be. It\u2019s not that simple.
\nBut the other thing is that people will have to become more used to living in higher density. I think that is definitely case. As our cities grow, as more people want to live in inner areas, we do have to get used to living in higher-density apartments or housing.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Land supply is, of course, a big problem. We saw the federal Treasurer come out and encourage state governments and local councils to release more land. Would that help?
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>It would help. There are lots of things that governments can do, things like streamlining the planning process, making it easier for developers to do what they do best is a key factor, releasing land. There are lots of things local government can do, and I think one of the things being done in Sydney at the moment is the amalgamation of councils. That is a key thing. If you can get bigger councils, they can start to put in better planning procedures and make them far more streamlined.
\nChanges to planning, release of land, better infrastructure, all these things lead to greater affordability.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Nerida, great talking to you. Nerida Connisbee, Chief Economist at the REA group. Thank you for your time.
\nNerida:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks for having me on.
\n <\/p>\n

Where have all the Chinese gone? – Gavin Norris<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I\u2019m delighted to say that I\u2019m joined now by the head of Juwai in Australia. Juwai, of course, is the number one Chinese international property portal, with more than 2 million visitors from China and other countries and showcasing 2.5 million listings from 89 countries. This is a very big website. Of course, we\u2019re interested in what\u2019s happening with foreign buyers into Australia, as well. Gavin Norris joins me, head of Australia for Juwai.
\nGavin, thanks for your time.
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s great that the Juwai has someone on the ground now in Australia, because you\u2019re obviously feeding back and giving us information about what\u2019s driving the market for foreign buyers. What\u2019s the fascination with Australia and New Zealand for overseas right now?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Good question. It definitely is a fascination. When you look at the traffic through Juwai, obviously, as you said, we\u2019re a portal from Chinese consumers looking at international property. When they come to our site, about 40% of traffic goes to U.S. A whopping 30% to 35% actually comes to Oz and New Zealand, so we have a huge share of eyes.
\nWhat they\u2019re attracted to\u2026, we often run surveys and ask inquiries do come through why they\u2019re looking to invest in countries such as Oz. Their main drivers when looking at overseas investment, typically, is safety and quality of lifestyle as well as infrastructure, but safety is a key driver.
\nThen their key motivation on top of that is education \u2013 and quality education as you\u2019ll often hear around the traps. That is a key motivator for the Chinese, and that\u2019s very true as far as our consumers.
\nWhen you look at safety and you look at the education options down here, that\u2019s why we end up as such an attractive proposition for the Chinese.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s a huge area of growth for Australian property to look at overseas buyers, particularly from China, and we\u2019ll talk about how big that can be. But firstly, let\u2019s just deal with the emotional debate that happens in Australia with foreign buyers and jacking up prices.
\nThe point I\u2019d make is about the research from the Property Council that tells us every new apartment bought by a foreign buyer enables four new apartments for local buyers. How do you react to that statement, and how true is it?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, true. The Australian government did a bit of research when that was all coming to hand about 18 months ago. Sure, foreign buyers are an important part of the market but still a very small part of the whole buying market across Australia. Indeed, Chinese are the largest portion of that foreign buyer market. Of course, they\u2019re only typically able to buy off the plan rather than second-hand assets.
\nThey are I think an important element but not the be all and end all of driving new construction and new supply, which cities like Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane do cry out for and have been crying out for for some time. So I think they\u2019re integral.
\nWhen you go one step further than that, coming back to why they\u2019re actually buying in Australia, it\u2019s not typically as a main driver for investment. They\u2019re all here largely for other reasons and other purposes, and the main one being education.
\nReal estate just ends up being a consideration along the way to sending their children to universities, secondary schools, and ever more so into private schools. Their long-term driver is a value to the economy.
\nThey\u2019re a small part still \u2013 we would want to over-play that \u2013 but important drivers of bringing sustainable revenue into the parts of the economy where we need the most.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Gavin, the restrictions on foreign buyers that have been bought into play in recent times, has that played much of a dampener on the interest from foreign buyers?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>No, not from what we can see. A few interesting events that occurred more recently were the stamp duty increases and the land tax increases around midyear for the Eastern states.
\nThe growth rate that we\u2019re seeing early in the year before that was introduced was quite strong. When that was announced, growth was still positive but slowed down while the changes were surfaced and people absorbed what they meant. Now, they\u2019re in place, largely, growth rates are back to where they were earlier in the year.
\nThose kind of thing are just a blip on the radar as far as what we\u2019re seeing as Chinese demand for Australian property, again, playing towards their longer-term objectives here. When they\u2019re looking at ten-year horizons for education and other purposes, those kind of restrictions or changes in the investment dynamics are a much smaller consideration as part of that plan.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>How much foreign money is invested in Australia?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>We can look at what comes through our website, for example. I f you look at what we saw as inquiry value for Australian property through our website over the last 12 months, we had almost $6 billion (U.S. dollars, that is) in inquiry across Australian real estate. That\u2019s a huge sum. A fair sum goes to Melbourne. For every three inquiries, we get for the city of Melbourne, we have two to Sydney. It\u2019s about the same ratio from Sydney to Brisbane. So, substantial amounts.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>What are your predictions for what\u2019s going to happen in 2017 with Chinese buyers?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any reason to say that it won\u2019t be a stronger year than what we\u2019ve experienced this year. A lot of their demand is driven by what\u2019s happening in China. Anyone who tells you that the Chinese presence globally, not just Australia as far as investment goes, and not only just in real estate but commercial assets as well is going to be a \u201cHere today, gone tomorrow\u201d story, it\u2019s definitely not true.
\nThe main thing is just the evolution of Chinese capital in second-, third-, fourth-tier cities and their waking up to the possibility of investing overseas and spending their investment, too, including assets in places like Australia.
\nAs they wake up to the opportunities, the second wave of capital will come. We\u2019ve seen that in the institutional space where the large insurance groups have been here, the large developers, Greenland [6:49 inaudible]<\/b>, but now, we\u2019re talking about other smaller funds \u2013 still large in our terms \u2013 and Chinese institutions coming to town. It\u2019s much the same when you\u2019re talking about the mom and dad purchases, as well.
\nWe just see growth continuing to accelerate to the large numbers that are forecast. I think the numbers expected will end up with doubling the kind of investment that we\u2019re seeing today in the next ten years.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Wow. It\u2019s amazing. Where do Chinese buyers like to buy, and how much do they spend?
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>Again, as I\u2019ve touched on before, it\u2019s regions and locations that play up to their motivation, so safe areas with good amenity and, candidly, a good touch of Chinese community with a backbone of education and other options for them.
\nAs I said before, Melbourne is our largest market, which surprises some people. Sydney, second. Brisbane, third. Then Adelaide, Gold Coast, Canberra, Perth, these more secondary gateway cities are definitely increasing at a rapid rate as the Chinese consumer gets a little bit more savvy about where they place their capital. Affordability is a key factor as to why we see some more attraction to Melbourne over Sydney.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I saw a repot recently where I think Juwai predicted that Canberra may have a chance of being the next hotspot.
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>We think so. Obviously, Canberra airport is opening itself up to the international markets with flights to New Zealand and Singapore. We see that all over the world, particularly in areas like Miami in the U.S. where if that happens, Chinese investment flows soon after. So we expect strong growth out of these areas that offer all those benefits that I touched before, provide great access, have great universities, and Canberra\u2019s got some of Australia\u2019s best obviously.
\nCanberra, Sydney, Melbourne, we\u2019re just an easy trip away and not too far as far as time zone goes, as far as many of the cities within China. It\u2019s bit of a perfect hit. With the affordability metrics you get out of Canberra versus Sydney, it makes a lot of sense that we\u2019ll see a strong growth there.
\nTo answer the other half of your question \u2013 what price point are they looking at \u2013 our typical purchaser isn\u2019t the billionaire Chinese person coming out; it\u2019s an investment range around about $700,000 to $900,000 (Aussie). They are at more the mid-market range than the top-end, the average consumer.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Gavin Norris from Juwai. Thank you so much for your time. Great talking to you, mate.
\nGavin:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin.
\n <\/p>\n

We are not born with a ‘how to’ manual – Michael Yardney<\/a><\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>A question I\u2019ve always wanted to ask is are great property investors born or made? Well, let\u2019s ask one. Michael Yardne<\/a>y, who I consider to be a great property investor and an advisor joins me.
\nGood day, Michael.<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Hello, Kevin. That\u2019s an interesting question, isn\u2019t it?<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, I know you were born, but were you born a great property investor?<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>No one is born with a how-to manual about doing money or other things in life, either, but I found that there are some innate qualities in some people that make them more likely to be successful. But you see successful people in business, property, shares become that way from all sorts of backgrounds, so I believe anyone can be \u2013 if they follow the right rules and develop the right habits, Kevin.<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I guess when you\u2019re successful in life, it means you\u2019re going to be successful at most things, but as you just alluded to there \u2013and I think it\u2019s a great point \u2013 there are common traits some of these people have, Michael. Is that what you\u2019re finding?<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>I think that\u2019s right. But what you said is right; you will find it in any area \u2013 in business or property. A small group of people will do consistently well and the vast majority won\u2019t. Often, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything, so there are some underlying traits, Kevin.
\nI think one of them is that they have smart, rich thinking habits. It comes back in many ways to their mentality and how they think about things, but it also has a lot to do with your life\u2019s experiences along the way. Every property investor who\u2019s now successful who I\u2019ve come across has had lots of little failures along the way, but all they\u2019ve done is get up one more time and have another go at it.<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I quite often think of great sportspeople or people who are fantastic at anything, whether it be as a surgeon or a mechanic, one thing that they do have in common is that they might not have been born that way but they certainly did a lot of training, put in a lot of hours.<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Sure. <\/b>I remember many years ago there was a famous book by Malcolm Gladwell called Outliers<\/i>, who noted that in most occupations where you needed complex cognitive and motor skills \u2013 whether it was performing surgery, whether it was being a musician, playing tennis \u2013 you needed a lot of training.
\nI think the key to that is over time, you learn to eliminate the noise. You need to be able to chunk down on information that\u2019s usable, because there\u2019s so much information out there, but you also need to know how to screen out the irrelevant options to you and only concentrate on the right things.
\nThe way you do that is by doing it, and unfortunately, successful people will recognize that they have to fail to become successful, and that doesn\u2019t put them off, while some people are scared of failing and they don\u2019t have a go. That puts them off, and then they\u2019re right; they won\u2019t be successful.<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I think that is the first roadblock, not doing it for the fear of maybe failing.<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s definitely one of them. So how do you know what to do when there are so many strategies out there?
\nI think one of the other challenges I see is that people are in a real hurry to get there. They want to do it quickly, and they\u2019re lured by the things that are in my inbox and your inbox every day: \u201cYou can buy ten properties in ten years, you can buy five properties in three years, you can buy property with no money down.\u201d I guess it\u2019s our greed glands working overtime when you get those things.
\nOne issue is understanding what\u2019s realistic, and the other is becoming good at things by doing them over again. Rather than jumping from one shiny toy to the next, like the average investor does, the successful investors I see do the same thing over again: they set their goals, they map their course, and they keep doing what\u2019s working, refining their skills along the way.
\nThey stick to tried-and-true strategies, tested strategies. They know that way how to navigate the speedbumps along the way. And it means that their success then depends more on themselves, and on their skills that they\u2019ve refined through familiarity, by doing it over and over again, rather than the marketplace.
\nSuccessful investors seem to do well in good times, Kevin, and they do well in reasonably bad times, while the average investor does reasonable in good times and they don\u2019t do well in bad times. It seems to be that successful investors have something internal that makes them work, not the marketplace that drives them.<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, consistency. You touched on that. Consistency is the key, doing it over and over. The way to become an expert at anything is to do it 100 times, rather than 100 things once.<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s exactly right. That\u2019s how you know when you are an expert, when you can repeat it, when you can do it over again, and when you get a consistent result. By doing it that way, it becomes boring, and that\u2019s why some people look for other excitement, Kevin. I often recommend they go bungee jumping or they go trail bike riding. They should make their property investment boring so that the rest of their life is exciting.<\/b>
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Very good advice. Michael Yardney<\/a>, thank you so much for your time.<\/b>
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>My pleasure, Kevin.
\n <\/p>\n

Anything is possible when you don’t know what you are doing – Charles Tarbey<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>My special guest this week in the show is Charles Tarbey, who is the CEO, founder and owner of Century 21.
\nCharles, thank you very much for your time.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Thank you, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>You and I have spoken on many occasions about the skills of agents and what\u2019s happening in the market. This time, I\u2019d like to know a little bit more about Charles Tarbey. Tell me about your property investment journey. When did it start for you, Charles?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Wow. Actually, Kevin, it started before I got into real estate or as I was getting into real estate \u2013 at 18 years of age or the end of my 17th year. I was putting away a few dollars each week, and I managed to buy a house out of Sydney but still in the Sydney metro when I was 18 years of age.
\nThe timing was perfect, not that I knew anything about timing at that stage. Within 24 months, the market had kicked on and I was able to actually sell that time and capital gains-free because it was my principal place of residence. That allowed me to open my first real estate office at the very tender age of 21.
\nI always tell people that I live by the philosophy that anything is possible when you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing, because Kevin, if I knew what I was doing, I would have probably talked myself out of it.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Never, Charles. What was the branding above the door on that first office?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Interestingly enough, it was the name of the suburb, Penrith Real Estate out in the west of Sydney. In those days, it was a big thing if you own the name of the suburb because people would ring Yellow Pages, and bang, you\u2019d get most of the leads for that town. Nowadays, it\u2019s all Internet search-based. You could put \u201cPenrith real estate\u201d in there and you\u2019d get 50 agents\u2019 names come up, so it\u2019s a very different scenario.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, of, the Internet wouldn\u2019t have been around in those days, either.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>It was not around. In fact, I was one of the first people to have a facsimile machine in 1977, 1978. The only problem was that people I was doing business with didn\u2019t have one, so I couldn\u2019t send them anything.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>They wouldn\u2019t have had mobile phones in those days, either, would they?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>That was the other thing, too. I was fortunate enough to get one of the first mobile phones in my car. They were very slick design. You couldn\u2019t obviously take them out of your car. The prefix number was 007. When you\u2019re leaving messages for people and they\u2019d say, \u201cWhat\u2019s your number?\u201d and I\u2019d say, \u201c007,\u201d they\u2019d say, \u201cLook, mate. Just tell me what your number really is.\u201d
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>That probably would have been the old Telecom Traveler, was it?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>It was. It\u2019s fantastic. There wasn\u2019t a traffic light I didn\u2019t pull up at with the phone to my ear and not turn left side of my ear and not going to lift and see somebody with a shoe to their ear.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Charles, <\/b>In fact, I was exactly the same. I think I used to stand at the side of the car with the door open with the phone up just so people could see I had a mobile phone. Boy, those were the days. You might also remember carbon paper. Remember we used to use carbon paper on contracts.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Kalamazoo, that was the big thing.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>We used to call them strip lists in those days where all the properties were all on one strip list. Anyway, enough reminiscing. That first property, did you hold that for long?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>No, I sold it. When I had chance to buy this real estate office, I sold the property. The market was good, and I used that equity to acquire that office. Within a couple of years, I started then buying\u2026 Penrith in those days was very underdeveloped, and I was able to buy a block of land here or there and get a local builder put a spec home on it for me. I started doing that two or three times a year to bolster my assets and my cashflow. Eventually, I started keeping one or two of the ones I was building and selling, and that was how I started building my portfolio in real estate.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s interesting. Where did the learning about property come from? Did it come from your family?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s a big thing owning a real estate in a lot of families, but no, it came from the fact that when you are out there buying and selling properties or actually selling properties for builders to investors, you start to see a pattern, and you can pick up on that pattern fairly quickly. If you act on it, it\u2019s a good pattern to get involved in \u2013 if you\u2019re not too ambitious. You have to be very careful with it.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Let\u2019s talk about strategy for a minute. Have you always used the same kind of strategy? If so, what is it, or has it changed?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>No. It\u2019s changed over the years, because I was able to purchase different types of properties in the equity I had, and some of them can be dangerous. For example, I have a commercial strata in each capital city where my corporate offices are located. That strategy is fine because I\u2019m the tenant. I can purchase the property and I can live in that property.
\nBut in the last few years, if you\u2019re a commercial floor owner or strata floor owner, that strategy could have devastated you. You could have been completely out the backdoor because commercial space got very, very hard to lease and you had to offer significant incentives to tenants. When you\u2019re the tenant yourself, it\u2019s so much better.
\nWhen you look at it nowadays, with interest rates so low, you can go into city of Sydney, for example, if you can find a $5 million strata or a 500 square-meter floor. If you borrow $5 million at today\u2019s interest rates, it\u2019s still $100,000 cheaper than renting it.
\nThe strategy changed, but people have to be very careful about getting into a marketplace that they\u2019re not engaged in all of the time.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Have you got a mixed portfolio, residential and commercial?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>I do. It\u2019s a bit embarrassing to say this, Kevin, but I own a golf course at south of Sydney, in a place called Kangaroo Valley. It\u2019s a lovely 18-hole Jack Newton-designed course.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I remember this now. Yes.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s not the sort of investment you would normally buy. But having a passion for golf at the same time and a passion for real estate, I\u2019ve been able to build villas around the golf course progressively, and the rental return on those villas becomes a convincing platform. Golf courses as a standalone are probably a disaster, so I prefer to call it a hotel with a golf course rather than the other way around.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Did you buy it as a golf course, or did you buy it because you knew you were going to develop it?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>It was a golf course sitting there, 12 holes, shut down, got into trouble. I bought it on a whim. It\u2019s probably the worst investment I\u2019ve ever made \u2013 I\u2019ve had it for 19 years \u2013 but it\u2019s the most beautiful thing I\u2019ve got in terms of real estate investment.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I was going to ask you maybe a little bit later into the interview what was the worst investment? You\u2019ve probably given it to us now.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>I\u2019ve given you the worst and best at the same time. No, it\u2019s a business now. It certainly is property, but it\u2019s a business, and it trades successfully as a business. It\u2019s been 19 years since I bought it, interestingly enough. All those years later, it\u2019s something that I have pride in.
\nI was telling somebody the other day \u2013 and this is something interesting, too, Kevin \u2013 that owning a property is not just for the sake of owning property. With that particular property, I now feel a responsibility to that property in that in 30 years\u2019 time, who\u2019s going to be enjoying that property? Whatever I do to that property today will either reflect on people\u2019s enjoyment or disappointment in time to come.
\nIn buying properties like that, it\u2019s not just about making money. I have now a responsibility to make that property a substantial property that people can enjoy for many, many years to come, and that means it\u2019s going to cost me more. I\u2019m going to have to build a better clubhouse down there and things of that nature. That may not necessarily be great for my return but in the overall scheme of things, I\u2019m hoping, it\u2019ll turn out to be one of the most beautiful golf courses in country New South Wales.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>If that was your worst deal, what\u2019s your best one?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Buying Century 21 Australia, that would be when you look at it from that perspective.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Best property deal.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>I think buying my family home is my best deal. Again, this brings into play not just a growth in asset or capital gain. It\u2019s very hard to put your own property on a balance sheet because if you sell it, you have to go and move somewhere else. But there comes a time in people\u2019s lives where if they buy a home and a decent home and look after it, they will probably sell it and scale down. The better your property now, the more capital growth you can have tax-free down the track.
\nMy property, I bought 31 years ago, the house I\u2019m in now \u2013 just almost 32 years; my daughter was just a few months old when I moved in. I paid money for it that people thought was ridiculous, but I saw something in that property. Today, my home sits in suburban Glenbrook, Lower Blue Mountains \u2013 and I mean suburban. It\u2019s a building block area. My house sits on five 800-square meter blocks in suburbia. Realistically, when I downsize in the future or do something else, there is a potential massive upside, capital gain-free.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>You could almost put a golf course on there \u2013 but you\u2019ve already got one.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>I\u2019d upset my neighbors if I start chipping golf balls very badly, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Help me now with a bit of advice for property investors. How do they go about picking the best suburb to invest in, Charles?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s an easy one. That\u2019s probably how I learned to buy property. The first property I brought was in an area that most people wouldn\u2019t buy. It was one of those areas where people talk badly about. There\u2019s plenty of suburbs across Australia where you hear a lot of negative news about.
\nI remember a property in Mount Druitt \u2013 which was considered one of those down-market areas \u2013 selling last year for $1 million. It broke through the million-dollar barrier. Just recently, a $1.5 million sale in Sunnybank.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Is this Sunnybank in Brisbane?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Now, you go backwards to Sunnybank ten years ago or maybe even less.
\nPeople have this tendency to follow the hot suburbs, and my advice is that\u2019s the last place you go. My advice is to buy properties in between the hot suburbs, in between them, where the postcode may not be exactly a hot suburb, but it doesn\u2019t take long for gentrification or the process of expansion to take place in suburbs to make what seems like an average suburb in between two good suburbs become a great suburb.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Good advice. Tell me, would you invest in property outside of Australia?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>No. I say that only because I don\u2019t have total control over my property investments but if you\u2019re in the same country, you have some control. You\u2019re aware of what\u2019s going on in that culture. You\u2019re aware of what\u2019s going on in that government. You have a fighting chance to move a property on if you need to.
\nChanging laws especially in countries that don\u2019t have the same structure that we have of government here, the same Torrens title, of the same unique ownership of property that we have in this country would scare me.
\nWe don\u2019t have title insurance in Australia because our title system is so young. But anywhere around the world you go and buy real estate, in most cases, you need title insurance because you don\u2019t know somebody\u2019s going to turn up from three generations ago and claim ownership of that property.
\nI think I would stay very much in Australia, and I think all capital cities in Australia will always have potential. They\u2019ll always have their ups and down cycles but they\u2019ll always have potential for growth.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Tell me, <\/b>Charles, is this a good time to be buying property to renovate and flip?
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>No, because it\u2019s too hard to buy a property to start with in some areas. It\u2019s too difficult to even get into the market place in some areas. Some people are buying properties to knock down, to rebuild, let alone renovate, and that\u2019s what you\u2019re competing against right now in most places. If there\u2019s a shortage of stock in certain areas and an average home that you could maybe renovate, people are buying them to knock the house down, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Charles, great talking to you, mate. Thank you very much.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Thank you very much.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I admire your work. Every time we see a Century 21 sign, we\u2019ll think of you, Charles.
\nCharles:\u00a0 <\/b>Good on you, my boy. Thanks for the opportunity.
\n <\/p>\n

Housing affordability vs over crowding – Danni Addison<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>My next guest is Danni Addison. Danni is the Victorian Chief Executive Officer of the Urban Development Institute of Australia. We\u2019re talking about affordability \u2013 seems to be something we\u2019re talking a lot about.
\nDanni, welcome to the show.
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>Hi. How are you, Kevin?
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Good. Thank you. Now, in response to Treasurer Scott Morrison\u2019s statements this week about combatting housing affordability issues, you said that the government needs to have a courageous conversation with the community. What do you mean by that?
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s right. I think the most courageous conversation the government does need to have with the community is really the one around density. We see it time and time again, in particular in Melbourne and in Sydney, in our major capital cities, this real fear of density and the real misunderstanding of what a more dense city would look like and would feel like for the people who already live in it.
\nIt\u2019s one that is difficult because there is a lot of community resistance around density but it\u2019s one that is simply inevitable just due to the population growth that we\u2019re experiencing, especially here in Melbourne.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>To make properties more affordable, we need to make the cities denser. Do you think we run the risk of overcrowding?
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>Not if it\u2019s done in the right way. The key to it is really understanding how our city works and where the spine of infrastructure and also jobs are located throughout the city and where those real hubs of activity can be, not just in the central CBD districts but out in the suburbs and on the peripheral to the city.
\nPlanning isn\u2019t about looking at a city in terms of what its CBD can offer, but it\u2019s about looking at where people move, where the jobs are located, and the transport infrastructure that\u2019s needed to support that, and then where is the most appropriate place for the housing that we need to deliver for such a growing population.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Danni, we\u2019ve seen a lot of research that said that about 50% of Australians will never own a property. I sometimes wonder whether they actually want to and whether some people are happy to rent for the rest of their lives.
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>Kevin, I think it\u2019s all about choice. I rent but I\u2019m also looking to buy my first property at some point in my life. Whether or not I live in that property will be a bit dependent on what kind of property I end up buying. I think we are starting to think differently about the role property plays in our lives, but it is still a real key part of building wealth and building individual and family wealth in Australia.
\nThere\u2019s a study that\u2019s been done, the Household, Income, and Labour Dynamics in Australia study, the HILDA study. In 2016, they found that the least expensive homes in Australia had experienced a price rise of 108% between 2011 and 2014, which tells us that even the most affordable properties have become far less affordable for the average Australian.
\nIt\u2019s about government has got a role to play in advocating that wages keep up, income growth keeps up with the cost of living in this country but also there is enough housing and new stock coming into the market to make sure that home ownership is an attainable dream for Australians as opposed to it just being something that the wealthy few can afford to get into.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Of course, a lot of blame for unaffordable prices in Australia has been laid squarely at the feet of foreign buyers or foreign investors. Yet to balance that up, there have been reports that we need foreign investment because it\u2019s foreign investment who are restricted to buying new properties off the plan\u2026 I think I saw a report the other day that said that for every foreign buyer who buys a unit, it creates another four units for local buyers to buy.
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s right. I believe it\u2019s the Property Council of Australia who\u2019s done that report, which is a very interesting piece of work and a really good one done by them. It comes down to the economics of development as a business and the requirement for many projects or for all projects that have a component of funding that comes from our big four banks in particular to reach a certain high amount of presale before construction funding is granted. You have to essentially presell everything before it come out of the ground.
\nA lot of the time over recent years, that tipping point between selling enough to selling enough to get funding to go ahead, that little gap there has been met by the overseas <\/b>investor market, so it has had an impact \u2013 the restraint placed on domestic finance from the banks placed on those purchases \u2013 on the ability for developers to presell a project and therefore start building.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Do you think the attitudes of Australians need to change when it comes to expectations of owning their own home and even what goes into the home or the size of the home?
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>I think it will change inevitably, whether or not it needs to. I think there will be so many different views out there that I\u2019d hate to post that there, but the reality is that it will change because home ownership is increasingly unattainable. The younger generations are looking at property ownership as a wealth-creating sector but not necessarily as the marker of the family status that it used to be \u2013 owning your home, having your family, all that sort of stuff.
\nI think people are more willing to trade-off on location and amenity and other things like that than the backyard, but there is still a huge demand for the Australian dream and the house and the land packages. Melbourne\u2019s green fields in particular really tell that story about how strong the demand is still for that suburban lifestyle.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Danni, LJ Hooker CEO Grant Harrod has said that abolishing stamp duty would go a long way to increasingly affordability for Australians. Would you agree to that?
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Look, I do agree with that but it isn\u2019t a simple solution. A broad-based land tax is definitely a more equitable solution but it would be a difficult transition for the everyday homeowner to make.
\nWhat stamp duty does at this point is place a barrier to filling a home or to purchasing a home. We see this is being particularly important in the downsize of market, and it\u2019s the market that we haven\u2019t really seen come through yet. As our baby-boomer section of the population gets older and their kids move out and they want to downsize, a big barrier to doing that is often stamp duty and the price it\u2019ll cost them to simply sell the family home and purchase a new different form of dwelling that better suits their needs.
\nWe find that people stay in their houses a lot longer than maybe they would like to, and this definitely has an impact on the amount of supply that could be available in the boarder suburban areas for families as opposed to older couples or older single people.
\nIt\u2019s intriguing in a demographic sense. It\u2019s definitely a very active barrier, and it could be addressed by state governments. But state governments rely very heavily on their stamp duty revenue, so I don\u2019t anticipate that it will be a quick solution.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>What\u2019s your view on First-Home Owner\u2019s Grants? Does it actually fuel the growth in properties, or is that actually a genuine way to help young buyers get in?
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>I think it is a genuine way to help young buyers get in, especially at that point in their lives. It\u2019s often the difference between someone being able to and not being able to buy their first home. In a market where prices are increasingly so rapidly, the sooner people are able to get into the market, it does have a big impact on what that property could be worth to them down the track.
\nThere are definitely varying views on it from economic point of view but it definitely does have a good impact on the first-home buyer market as it is, and if and when it\u2019s removed, it does have a detrimental impact on the ability of young people to buy into the market.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Danni, great sharing your views. Thank you very much for spending some time with us today.
\nDanni:\u00a0 <\/b>Good. Thank you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

  Were you told from a very young age that if you want to succeed at something, you must put in time, hard work and importantly, practice.\u00a0 Successful property investors are not born with a \u201cHow to\u201d manual and they certainly don\u2019t rely on luck….<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":9856,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,17,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-9854","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-property-investment","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nAre great property investors born or made? + \u201cAnything is possible when you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing\u201d. - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/are-great-property-investors-born-or-made-anything-is-possible-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-doing\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Are great property investors born or made? 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