{"id":9635,"date":"2016-10-20T10:00:50","date_gmt":"2016-10-19T23:00:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=9635"},"modified":"2016-10-20T10:00:50","modified_gmt":"2016-10-19T23:00:50","slug":"the-fear-of-overpaying-for-a-property-expert-is-surprised-at-the-resilience-of-the-market","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/the-fear-of-overpaying-for-a-property-expert-is-surprised-at-the-resilience-of-the-market\/","title":{"rendered":"The fear of overpaying for a property + Expert is \u201csurprised\u201d at the resilience of the market"},"content":{"rendered":"

 
\nEd Chan<\/strong> from Chan & Naylor stumps up to answer some questions about land tax from Charlotte.
\nI ask Margaret Lomas<\/strong> about the fairness or otherwise of the compensation you get from Government if your land is resumed and what can you do if you are not happy? Margaret tells us about her personal family experience in this area.
\nA very successful investor and property renovator, Jane Slack-Smith<\/strong> is our feature guest this week. Jane talks about her early memories of growing up in a family of renters. How she initially trained as a mining engineer but started out as a rentvestor and how she built her portfolio.
\nThis market just continually surprises, doesn\u2019t it? You look at the growth in Sydney and Melbourne, and there were so many predictions at that start of the year that it just wouldn\u2019t continue, but it has. How do you get on in this kind of market? What do you do? How do you get in there?\u00a0 Michael Yardney<\/strong> <\/a>answers those questions and more.
\nPatrick Bright<\/strong> has some thoughts on how tough it really is for first time buyers and he has some hard advice.
\n <\/p>\n

Transcripts:<\/strong><\/h4>\n

Resumed properties are under valued – Margaret Lomas<\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I was interested to read a story recently \u2013 actually, it came out of the ABC \u2013 about a property owner in New South Wales not being fairly compensated for resumption of land, whether that\u2019s for some kind of development. We hear about these stories quite often. Government is very quick, of course, to come out and say, \u201cOh, no, we fairly compensate them.\u201d I want to talk to Margaret Lomas about this from Destiny Financial Solutions.
\nHi, Margaret?
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Hi, there. How are you going?
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, thank you. I know this is a particular bee in your bonnet. Have you struck this on a number of occasions, Margaret?
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019ve actually had personal experience with this a long time ago when my father owned a business. He had had that business for a good 30 or 35 years, employed about 20 or 25 people, and owned the land and premises in which that business operated. So the business rented it back from him and my mom.
\nAs he was getting up closer to retirement\u2013 I think he would have been about 58 or 59 at the time\u2013 the decision was made to put a main road right through his land. Initially the main road was going to go in front of his land, which would have given him an advantage in business. But they decided that they would shift that main road a little bit, and it ended up going straight through his land.
\nNow, what they actually did was the amount of money that they offered him to resume his property was some half of what it was really worth. He at the time had an independent valuer who stated what it was really worth.
\nWhat the government actually said to him at the time and I remember it so clearly was that that\u2019s fine, he could fight them in court if he wanted to, but what they would do is hold it up in court for 10 years anyway and at the end of the day, he probably wouldn\u2019t win. So he could either shut up and take the money or he could try and not take the money, in which case they would put the road there anyway and force him out.
\nNow, to me that\u2019s bullying. What ended up happening to my dad was because he had all of these people working for him, he felt committed to them, he actually moved to rented premises at the time. He couldn\u2019t afford to rent something in as good a position as what he previously had, and within two years, the whole business was in liquidation.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 As you say, that\u2019s straight up bullying. There\u2019s no question of that.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s bullying. So 60-years-old and he basically came out of a 35-year-old business with nothing because of those tactics. He had nothing to sell because one by one, he had to let the employees go. He couldn\u2019t get the passing <\/b>trade that he used to get. No one could find him anymore. He was in the back streets, instead of close to a good road. So it\u2019s very sad.
\nBut, unfortunately, the government does whatever the government wants to do. When they use bullying tactics like that where they say, \u201cWell, you know, do what you like, but at the end of the day, we\u2019re going to do it because it\u2019s the law that we\u2019re allowed to resume land, and you can fight us for fair compensation, but it\u2019s going to take you 10 years.\u201d A lot of people don\u2019t have the heart for that kind of legal action.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 In this particular case in New South Wales \u2013 and I know we have lots of instances all around Australia about this \u2013 this was in connection with the NorthConnex Road Project. Homeowners along there accused the New South Wales government of lowballing them on prices. The key points from the story where the legal team says that the government is hiring top-end lawyers to defend its acquisitions. So you\u2019re up against the big hitters, aren\u2019t you?
\nMargaret:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s going to cost you a lot of money.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Oh, yes.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 And they have a history of actually offering around about one-third of the true market value of the land. Now, these are current, and I know that what you were talking about your dad was they offered him even a lot less than that.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 The thing is I think what they didn\u2019t bargain for when they were first deciding and planning on WestConnex \u2013 which has obviously been in the pipeline for such a long time \u2013 was the sudden and increasing value of property in Sydney. So that made it even worse.
\nThey may have been offering initially, maybe, 60 or 70% of the value. But in the end because land had sky-rocketed around them before they got the chance to make the offers, suddenly, they find themselves with a potential bill way, way bigger than they thought that would then have actually thrown <\/b>the cost of the project out by billions. The thing is it\u2019s cheaper for them to hire the top-end lawyers to fight it than it is to pay the money.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 What would be your advice, Margaret, to anyone who\u2019s facing this?
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Unfortunately, I don\u2019t have any good news for anybody, because the only option\u2026 there\u2019s a couple of legal options. To me there could be potentially some misleading and deceptive conduct here. It depends on what the initial discussions were. If the government is say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to get you fair-market value,\u201d and you can conclusively prove that it hasn\u2019t been fair-market value, then, technically, you might have a misleading and deceptive conduct case on your hand \u2013 in which case, the Department of Fair Trading will take that on for you at no cost to you. But how far you\u2019ll get with that is another thing.
\nOutside of that: hiring your own lawyer. But, you know, it costs a lot of money to be in court, and the government will absolutely take their time over it. They don\u2019t care how much money they spend.
\nTo be honest, it isn\u2019t worth your while to try to get fair-market value. Even if you think it\u2019s the right thing to do, there\u2019s very little you can do. The law does state that resumption of land is a legal process, and when you buy your property, there is fine print in that contract that states that at any time, the government can resume your land.
\nEven though they say they\u2019ll pay fair-market value, I think you can forget about that ever happening. The best advice I can give you is to just make sure that you don\u2019t buy somewhere where potentially there could be a main highway going through.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. Reminds me of that wonderful movie The Castle<\/i>. While that was a great movie, there are obviously lots of similarities around Australia of that actually happening.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. I think the unfortunate thing about that movie \u2013 as fun as it was to watch \u2013 is that in real life, it wouldn\u2019t happen that way. In real life, they wouldn\u2019t win that case. In real life, the runway would have gone through their house and they would have received probably a third of its value then, as well.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s a terrible story. Maybe you might be suffering from that; we\u2019d like to hear from you.
\nMargaret, I want to thank you very much for your time. Now, we\u2019re into the summer season of your great show on Sky TV, as well.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019m so excited because you\u2019ve agreed to do a new segment for me at the top of the show, which is going to be great. It\u2019s all about property investing \u2013 I guess, tips and tricks and all that kind of stuff. You\u2019re going to use all of your expertise and experience from all those many years in real estate to provide a new top for the show for me, which is going to be great fun.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I\u2019m really excited about it. So thank you for asking me. It\u2019s a privilege, and I look forward to working with you on that, as well.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Fantastic.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s on Sky 602, isn\u2019t it?
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. All weekend.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Margaret Lomas from Destiny Financial Solutions. Thank you so much. I look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks, Margaret.
\nMargaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Thank you.
\n <\/p>\n

Land tax explained – Ed Chan<\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Thank you for your questions. Keep them coming in the time; they\u2019re very, very welcome, of course. Just do it through the website. Go to RealEstateTalk.com.au. There\u2019s an \u201cAsk Our Experts\u201d question panel in there. Just put your question in.
\nWe got one from Charlotte in New South Wales, and I\u2019m going to defer in a moment to Ed Chan from Chan & Naylor to answer this one. Thank you for your question, Charlotte. Charlotte has a few questions on how tax is calculated. Don\u2019t we all, Charlotte? \u201cHow much do I have to pay? Do I have to pay land tax on my principal place of residence, and should I take this into account when I buy an investment property?\u201d
\nEd Chan joins me from Chan & Naylor.
\nGood morning, Ed. Nice to have you on the show, too.
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks, Kevin. Nice to be here.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Let\u2019s answer Charlotte\u2019s questions. There are a number of questions in there. What do you want to tackle first?
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Probably the question around land tax is a good one.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It varies from state to state, doesn\u2019t it, Ed?
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, it does. You can go into the Office of State Revenue\u2019s website for each of the states, and you\u2019ll have all of the different rules and the rates and so forth. But generally speaking, the home that you live in is exempt, so you don\u2019t have to pay any land tax on that. However, if you rented that home out and put a tenant in it, then it becomes subject to land tax, so you have to be careful when you rent it out. Some people think that they\u2019re living in their home, they rent it out, and it\u2019s still exempt from land tax.
\nSome people also confuse the exemption from capital gains tax, which is a six-year exemption. If you moved out of your house and rented it out and then you moved back in, it\u2019s still exempt from capital gains tax but it\u2019s not exempt from land tax. As soon as you rent it out, it\u2019s then subject to land tax.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 How much time do you have in-between having it as your principal place of residence and then when you decide to put a tenant in there, how much time do you have to let them know that that\u2019s the case?
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s immediate. As soon as a tenant moves in, it\u2019s then subject to land tax immediately. It\u2019s all based on self-assessment, so you have to volunteer it. In other words, you have to fill in an application form. You can download that from the Office of State Revenue.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I imagine if you don\u2019t do that, you\u2019re going to be in for a fine as well if they catch up with you.
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. Because it\u2019s self-assessment, people think that \u201cI\u2019ll just get away with it and not pay it,\u201d but you get caught when they do an audit. They do audits every now and then and they send questions that you have to answer.
\nBut also, when you try to sell your house, the purchaser generally wants a land tax clearance because unlike other taxes, land tax goes with the property. If I bought a house and there\u2019s land tax owing on it, then I take responsibility for that outstanding land tax liability.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Wow. I imagine that\u2019s a search the solicitor would have to do prior to settlement. Wouldn\u2019t that be the case?
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s the general way to do it. You get your solicitor or your conveyancer and they generally should ask for a land tax clearance on the land as part of their job, their due diligence, if you like. It\u2019s important when you\u2019re doing this that they do that for you, otherwise you could potentially inherit a large land tax liability.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I suppose as the portfolio grows, too, it\u2019s a good idea to search around to other states to spread that land tax liability around a bit.
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s the other issue. Land tax is calculated at a particular point in time, but then once you\u2019ve reached a threshold\u2026 And each state has a different threshold, and I won\u2019t cover all of the states, but just generally, for example, in New South Wales, it\u2019s around $482,000 in land value \u2013 that\u2019s the unimproved value of the land. So it doesn\u2019t include the property or the building that\u2019s on there. The Valuer General will generally provide an estimate of the unimproved value of the land. That\u2019s $485,000 in New South Wales.
\nIn Queensland, for example, it\u2019s $600,000 before you need to pay any land tax. In Victoria, it\u2019s around $250,000 before you need to pay land tax. Again, it\u2019s all in their website, so you can go in there and check it out for yourself.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t adjust to each year, either. As values go up, land tax is not adjusted every year, so there\u2019s almost a bit of a creep-in there, isn\u2019t there?
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, there is, although it depends on the state. A lot of the states don\u2019t do it every year, so it could be several years before they bump the value up. When they bump the value up, they adjust the land tax.
\nOne important point I\u2019d better make is that when you buy a property, it\u2019s all based on self-assessment, so they won\u2019t automatically send you a bill for your land tax. It\u2019s on a volunteer basis. It\u2019s called self-assessment, not volunteer. Self-assessment is probably a better term.
\nYou go into their site and you fill out a form. It\u2019s an initial return. You send that initial return into the Office of State Revenue. They then assess the land, and if you\u2019re under the threshold, they\u2019ll send you a new assessment. If it\u2019s over, they\u2019ll calculate it and they\u2019ll then send you a bill.
\nHowever, once you\u2019ve done that, generally, in most estates, they\u2019ll send it to you every year, so you won\u2019t have to worry about it. It\u2019s the first one that you have to really worry about.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Ed, great talking to you. Thank you very much. You\u2019ve answered all of those questions. Charlotte, the last part of your question, you said, \u201cShould you take it into account when you buy an investment property?\u201d Of course, you should; I think anyone would advise you of that.
\nEd Chan has been my guest from Chan & Naylor. Ed, thanks for your time.
\nEd:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks, Kevin, and thanks for your question, Charlotte.
\n <\/p>\n

Wear out the shoe leather – Patrick Bright<\/h2>\n

Kevin<\/b>:\u00a0 Patrick Bright joins me. Patrick is an author and also a buyer\u2019s agent with EPS Property Search. I want to talk to Patrick about first-home buyers, because there is a lot of complaining in the market at present about just how unaffordable it is for them. I want to find out if that\u2019s for real. I want to get his take on it, and also he has some great advice, too, on how you can become a property owner as a first-time buyer. He joins me.
\nGood day, Patrick, how are you going?
\nPatrick<\/b>:\u00a0 Good morning, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Good to be talking to you again, mate. Thank you very much. Patrick, as I said, is from EPS Property Search. Patrick, do you very often have to help first-time buyers get into a property?
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, these are part of the client base that we help. It\u2019s not the biggest chunk. You have to understand first-home buyers really only represent about 10% to 15% of the marketplace at any time, anyway, and that floats up a little bit. Obviously it fluctuates at different times when governments put incentives on the table, and then when things are taken away, obviously, that drops a little bit.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I sometimes wonder, buying a property is a big decision, it\u2019s a big commitment. The fears around that for first-time buyers, what are they and how real are they, Patrick?
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, first off, they\u2019re nervous. The number one thing, like anybody, and definitely first-time buyers as well, is buying something and overpaying. That\u2019s a big concern; people don\u2019t want to overpay.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Is that their biggest concern?
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>I find that. A lot of people come to me saying, \u201cI don\u2019t want to overpay, I don\u2019t know how much to pay.\u201d Particularly, dealing with auctions, there\u2019s no price guidance or limited pricing information around that, so that frustrates people a lot. They just don\u2019t know where to start. They\u2019re fearful of being out-negotiated, and they should be, because they\u2019re going to be. You\u2019re not going to beat a seasoned professional.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Overpaying being the biggest one, what can they do to overcome that? Obviously do some research, but where do they go to do that, Patrick?
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Basically, shoe leather is what you have to work through, which is exactly what a buyer\u2019s agent does. Just do what we do. You have to go and inspect properties. You have to be educated \u2013 as you said, research. Inform yourself about the market. You can\u2019t just rely on data reports. For instance, you can\u2019t just go and buy one for $50 off the Net or get one handed to you and go, \u201cOh yeah, that works.\u201d
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, you can, but just how reliable are they?
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, that\u2019s the thing. You can get that \u2013 you\u2019re right \u2013 but they\u2019re limited. They\u2019re \u201cname, rank, serial number.\u201d Those reports don\u2019t tell you the size of the block, or if it\u2019s a house, for instance, they don\u2019t tell you if the house is at the front or the back of the block. They\u2019ll tell you the size, but they don\u2019t know the shape of the block.
\nIs it slopey? Does it have an outlook? Is it private in the backyard. What\u2019s the floor plan like? Okay, it\u2019s four-bed, two-bath, but is it renovated, partly unrenovated, fully renovated? The room sizes, what are they like? What\u2019s the floor plan? Does it flow? Can you fix it?
\nThese things aren\u2019t available on those reports, so you have to be physically out there, looking at these properties, and understanding\u2026 In the same street, we see properties that are four-bed, two-bath in the same street with a 30% difference in value \u2013 because the different side of the street, different aspect, different natural light coming in, different shape of the block, different view and privacy. All these things factor in a little bit, but it adds up to a lot.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>One of the things that worries me a lot is, one of the major banks currently advertising an app that they have that purports that you can simply go in and just hold it up in front of the real estate agent and get an accurate price indication about a property. Now, I sometimes worry about those, for the very reasons you\u2019ve just outlined there \u2013 that it\u2019s a lot more complex than just having an app that just pumps up a figure.
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Completely. Everybody, they\u2019re just meat. They\u2019re just meeting the need that people out there who want to know everything instantly, everything, and information.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>But they\u2019re not accurate. That\u2019s the thing that worries me.
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>They\u2019re not accurate at all. It\u2019s not accurate at all. There has even been plenty of research. Look at this: you get three or four sales agents coming in to assess your home, and they\u2019ll be 20% apart \u2013 and they\u2019ve looked at it.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, but you get valuers in, the same thing will happen.
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Oh, plenty of times. I\u2019ve had valuers come in on a property\u2026 I actually to refinanced a couple of my properties recently, and I had a valuation on it, and I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s a big light. That\u2019s a bit mean on the valuation. I know the market.\u201d So, I went back to the bank, and said, \u201cLook, I want a new valuer to come out from a different firm.\u201d He came out and there was a 10% uplift variance in that valuation. And I went with the higher valuation; I was allowed to, which you are. And that was fair. I just thought the guy was being 10% light when he valued it, and I asked for another one.
\nThese professionals are doing it day in and day out. So, at the very least, at the very least, you have to be out there looking at dozens and dozens of properties, over weeks. You can see, easily, a dozen on a Saturday. If you commit to two months, eight weeks, not a long time, you\u2019ll get through the best part of a hundred properties. You\u2019ll be as informed as anybody about the value of the type and style of property that you\u2019re looking to buy. And this goes for not just first-time buyers, for everybody.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>For everyone, yes.
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>And, particularly if you\u2019re buying in a suburb or an area that you\u2019ve never lived in before because you\u2019ll discover things about it. Go on and have dinner there, go on and eat at the caf\u00e9s there.
\nAnother thing I say to people is \u201cWhat\u2019 the traffic like?\u201d if it\u2019s in an area where there\u2019s a bit of traffic. Particularly in Sydney, we have to factor that in. What I\u2019ve said to people is if you\u2019re not sure about an area, you need to drive there for a week, in the morning, as if you would be leaving for work, and do that route to work to know it. Or do the public transport. Do that, and even going home.
\nIf a property doesn\u2019t have parking on it, like you just mentioned before, that\u2019s a huge negative \u2013 no parking \u2013 and I understand why that\u2019s on the top of the list. People go, \u201cOh, it\u2019s okay.\u201d because we have three-bed, two-bath, terraces in Paddington that sell for $3 million, $4 million with no parking. So if people say parking is not an issue, I say, \u201cGo and park there when you would normally be trying to parking of an evening coming home, and see how happy you are.\u201d
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Mate, we\u2019re out of time, Patrick. Got to go, but, thank you very much, mate. Good talking to you.
\nPatrick:\u00a0 <\/b>Pleasure, as always.
\n <\/p>\n

Rentvestor develops a portfolio – Jane Slack-Smith<\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Our featured guest this week is Jane Slack-Smith.
\nHi, Jane.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Hi, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I want to talk to you about your journey. We\u2019ve spoken to you about many things about investing in property and more recently \u2013 and we\u2019ll talk about it, too \u2013 The Ultimate Guide to Renovation. While we\u2019ll talk about that in our chat, I want to get to know you a little bit better, Jane, and I want to know about your property journey because you came from a background that I wouldn\u2019t have thought would ideally lead you into property.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, I have had an interesting journey. That\u2019s for sure.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Tell me about it. Where did it all start? What was your first property, and how did you get into it?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 I am a farm girl from Dubbo. My father was a farmer and worked on someone\u2019s farm and managed that. Really, my parents were always hard workers and they always rented a farmhouse. It always came with the job.
\nMy mother was a nurse and then became an interior decorator, so we got to see some of the fabulous homesteads and properties around Dubbo, all the way out to Broken Hill and down to Parkes, etc. So we had an opportunity to see these beautiful homes, which always fascinated me and I always thought it would be lovely to be an architect.
\nBut as things were, to go to university and be the first in the family to attend university, I needed a scholarship. I was pretty good at math and science, and to everyone\u2019s extreme shock and horror, I got a scholarship to study mining engineering.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 How did you fall into that?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Engineering came up on the math and science background, and I was taught from a very young age that education was a process that allowed you to learn how to learn and then it was up to you how you applied it. So, I wasn\u2019t too caught up on what my degree was going to be; I just knew that the learning mechanism and what I could then apply to future careers was going to be what I could do. I had seen my mother change her career, so I wasn\u2019t afraid of doing that.
\nMy parents always rented, didn\u2019t have their own home, so I\u2019d never had a fear of renting. Later on in life, I became a \u201crentvestor\u201d for ten years. But for me, I was given the opportunity to go to an exclusive boarding school in Sydney and get that education. I could see how the other half lived.
\nEngineering was a skill set that I knew fitted me, but more importantly, I got a scholarship. When they rang up and said, \u201cJane has a scholarship to study mining engineering,\u201d first and foremost, my mum said, \u201cYou\u2019ve got the wrong, Jane Slack-Smith,\u201d and the school counselor said, \u201cNo girls from here do engineering.\u201d It took a bit of convincing.
\nI turned up and studied mining engineering, and that first summer, I became the first female to work underground legally in the New South Wales coal mines and the guys went out on strike. It was an interesting experience.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Congratulations on achieving that. Have you been able to use any of the skills you learned through that in what you\u2019re doing now?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. I spent the last ten years of that 18-year career as an explosives expert. I was doing risk assessments every day, and I did a thesis on risk assessments at university. I was looking at the consequences and likelihood of something going wrong and how to minimize that risk.
\nWhen I met my now husband, Todd, 18 years ago, he had seen someone do amazing property portfolio building in New Zealand, where he was from. And his father was a renovator who used to buy, do up the house, sell the house, and then upgrade the home, so he had really seen that in practice.
\nBasically, I then pulled my risk assessment skills together and said, \u201cWell, if I only have $45,000, I need to make sure that this really important nest egg that I\u2019ve saved everything for is going to make me money in the future.\u201d So I was really dedicated to understanding the risks and doing the research.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s a fascinating story. You mentioned earlier about your parents being full-time renters. They rented all of their lives, I think you said. What were the conversations like around the kitchen table? Did it relate to property at all? Where did you learn your skills?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 No. Investment in property was not something that we ever discussed. Because they were doing it tough, there wasn\u2019t a lot of extra money or savings, either. I can still remember when we did have extra money, I would spend it because that was just the way we did things.
\nI remember at one stage, back in the days of bank cards, my dad saying to my mum, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have to be better at these credit cards. I\u2019m cutting up your bank card.\u201d We went into Grace Brothers in Dubbo, and the lady said, \u201cDo you have your bank card?\u201d My mom said, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t have it with me at the moment but I memorized the number.\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Is that right? And she got away with that?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. It was back in the seventies. Everyone was friends.
\nThey really worked very, very hard and all of the money went into providing us with a great education, and they made sacrifices for us to do that, for which I\u2019m always grateful. But we didn\u2019t grow up talking about how to invest at all, just how to be the best that we could be at what we wanted to work at.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s a great start in life, too. Tell me about the first property you ever purchased, whether it was for yourself or as an investment.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Basically, I knew that we needed a methodology to get this right and research was going to be the key. My boyfriend at the time \u2013 he\u2019s now my husband \u2013 Todd, he wanted to buy property, as well,
\nWe were based in Melbourne, so we drew a circle around 10K of CBD Melbourne and we put all of the suburbs on the list. Then we wiped out three-quarters of them because we couldn\u2019t afford them, and then we started doing some research on the suburbs that were left. We came down to Carlton, Fitzroy, and Collingwood.
\nWe did amazing research on those three suburbs. We walked the streets, and we\u2019d go to every open home. For every ten properties that we looked at an open home to buy, we\u2019d go to one that was up for rent because we wanted to see what the competition was like as well, which is still a technique I teach my students today. It really gave you some insight into (a) if you wanted to employ that property manager and (b) what kind of quality of fixtures and fittings people were looking for.
\nWe did all of this research, and within three months, we were within 2% to 3% predicting what the auction prices would be. We\u2019d drive up and down this beautiful street in Carlton and we\u2019d say, \u201cOne day, our end goal is to have a home here.\u201d
\nFortunately, what happened was a lady put two properties up for the one bill of sale but on two separate titles. Instead of saying $400,000 or $450,000, it went for $900,000, $950,000. The property was passed in, but we had the Residex report that showed us some comparable sales. We had the report on the property that said everything was going to fall down tomorrow. And we went in and started negotiating.
\nMeanwhile, some [7:56 inaudible]<\/b> were out there saying, \u201cThese people are too young to buy a property; we\u2019ll put $1,000 on their top bid, and let us have it.\u201d To the credit of the real estate agent, they said no, and we negotiated those first two properties for $975,000.
\nI purchased my side for $425,000 and Todd had his for $450,000, and we did a renovation that cost me $50,000. I got a personal loan of $50,000. And nine months later, that $425,000 property was worth $700,000, so I pulled out equity, moved to Sydney, and did it again, and did it again and did it again. I never used anything more than that first $45,000 to secure property since then.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Do you still flip properties, or do you hold them nowadays?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 I never flipped.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That first one was a flip, wasn\u2019t it?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 No, I just pulled the equity out.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Sorry, I misheard you then. Well done.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 They\u2019re worth maybe $1.5 million or $1.7 million now, those two properties that we purchased for $945,000 11 years ago.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s a big message \u2013 isn\u2019t it? \u2013 about buy and hold.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. I was reading an article recently about where we bought subsequent properties in Sydney \u2013 Kingsford in the eastern suburbs. When we looked at that area, we could see that Kensington and Randwick and Coogee were all in the $1 million price range. Kingsford, the poor cousin no one wanted to live in, was at $625,000. We went in and negotiated and bought a house there. The median price there is $1.7 million today.
\nThat buy and hold, the growth, and being able to add equity straight away to be able to buy renovation was our technique for all of these properties. Push the rent up to help us pay for the difference between the cost and the income and pull out equity to buy the next property was the strategy the entire period of time.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Do you have a mentor? Who guides you?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Look, I\u2019ve had many mentors over the years. When I started my mortgage broking business, I got a mentor involved then who I still talk to 12 years later, now. But I find that sometimes the learning is right for a person for a couple of years and then I move on to a new mentor, so at the moment, I\u2019m currently working through and interviewing three different people to be my next mentor.
\nI spent a lot of time in the States \u2013 flying backwards and forwards \u2013 to learn how to authentically educate people with really valued content, and that was something that back in 2012 with the Your Property Success education, I wanted to do it right and I couldn\u2019t see anyone doing it in Australia, so I found a mentor overseas to learn that. That satisfied for a couple of years and then I moved on to the next mentor.
\nAs you need things, I think you need to upgrade your skills and upgrade the people who are helping you to achieve your next level of what you want to do.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, a good mentor or a good coach will tell you the first thing they should want to do is to have their client outgrow them, really. It doesn\u2019t mean that the mentor or the coach is deficient; it just means that you\u2019ve grown, basically.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. They\u2019ve done their job.
\nI mentor a very small number of people each year, and I tell them, \u201cIf you come back for the following year, it means that I haven\u2019t done my job.\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s very true.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 I think that it\u2019s always important. I was very happy in a corporate role in the mining industry making lots of remember, but I remember I was sitting on the mine site somewhere between Mount Isa and Moranbah \u2013 I think I\u2019ve been to every mine site in Australia \u2013 and we were waiting for a blast to go off.
\nThese guys were saying to me, \u201cHow do you have so many properties?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWe\u2019re on the same income; how don\u2019t you?\u201d So I started teaching them the methodology of doing the research. It was at that point that I turned around and thought, \u201cI really wanted to be able to help people buy properties, but I don\u2019t want to be a real estate agent. I want to teach them what to do.\u201d
\nBack then, in 2005, financial planners couldn\u2019t help and mortgage brokers were the only ones who could actually legally get professionally indemnity insurance to protect their own assets and talk about property. I\u2019ve always been a bit of a different mortgage broker because, for me, it\u2019s about the property rather than the loan and understanding what the goals for the people are. Hence, that\u2019s why the education came along in supporting that journey for them.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s a bit like \u201cGive them a fish, you\u2019ll feed them for a day; give them a fishing rod and you\u2019ll feed them for life.\u201d Isn\u2019t it?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. I\u2019m a big believer in that, and that\u2019s how I\u2019ve always educated myself, as well.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s great to be coaching someone or working with someone and then all of a sudden, you see the penny drop and they understand about gearing. That\u2019s really what it\u2019s all about, isn\u2019t it?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. And I still go to courses. I see people stand up there and go, \u201cI\u2019m going to give you the one tip that\u2019s going to make your investment in this course successful for you,\u201d and they\u2019ll talk to something about a tax variation, and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat?\u201d Then you realize people don\u2019t know about the fact that they don\u2019t have to wait to be into the financial year to get their tax refund on their property investments; they could get it every paycheck.
\nThere are a lot of little things that you know that you kind of forget that you know, but when you share those with people and you see that \u201cOh my gosh, I don\u2019t have to sell my home to pull out equity to buy an investment property,\u201d that kind of \u201ca-ha\u201d moment, I live for those.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You have so much to offer, Jane, and I always love talking to you. Just before I let you go, I want to ask you because The Ultimate Guide to Renovation is open. It opened a couple of days ago. Tell me what we can expect to see inside of that.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 This is the complete culmination flagship of everything I\u2019ve learned over the last 15 years of researching about properties. Unlike traditional renovation courses, it\u2019s not all \u201cHammer and nails\u201d and \u201cLet\u2019s get in and paint.\u201d
\nIt\u2019s a 12-week online course \u2013 all video-based and downloadable. We work through the goals and the finance, but the first six modules are all about the importance of the location, because we know that unless people buy in the right place, there\u2019s no point in renovating because you may not make money.
\nWe\u2019ve listened to our community over the last four years that we\u2019ve offered this flagship course and the enrolment is twice a year. They\u2019ve said, \u201cIt\u2019s too hard going to 30 different websites and grabbing all of the information you tell us to do.\u201d So I\u2019m really proud to say we\u2019ve just finalized software that we did for our students that allows them to analyze properties by putting in certain criteria and out comes all of the data for the properties across Australia. We\u2019re always perfecting.
\nJust the private Facebook group, there are hundreds of people in there, the support they give each other, sharing costs on doing deals, putting up properties, and asking questions, it\u2019s just an amazingly supportive group, and I\u2019m really proud of having created it and being part of it. It\u2019s something I\u2019m really proud of.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Here we are. The enrolments have opened up a great opportunity for you. Use the link on the home page at Real Estate Talk. That\u2019ll take you straight. You can get all of the details there and you\u2019ll see exactly what Jane has been talking about.
\nJane, before I let you go, the bottom line: where do you see property investors go wrong?
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 I think it\u2019s not educating themselves upfront. Often, it\u2019s being simplistic with their purchases. \u201cThe property around the corner came up for sale, so I bought it,\u201d or someone said that it\u2019s really great to buy in a certain area so they believed that without understanding the research. I always look for multiple pieces of information from multiple parties to establish where to buy.
\nI have a very large property portfolio today that goes up by over $1 million last year while I was sleeping. I know that people can achieve that. I wrote that book \u2013 Two Properties, One Renovation, $1 Million in the Bank<\/i> \u2013 because I know with just two well-placed properties, people can have that degree of freedom.
\nUnderstanding the importance of the location and the research, gathering information from as many areas as you can, and listening to podcasts like yours \u2013 I\u2019ve been listening to your podcast for years \u2013 and you always pick up something, and that quest of always learning and applying that, I think, is probably where people can go right with property investing.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Better look at where they go right because there are so many lessons we can learn from that.
\nJane, I want to thank you so much. Congratulations on what you\u2019re doing with The Ultimate Guide to Renovation \u2013 a reminder to click on that link on the home page at Real Estate Talk and all of the details are there for you \u2013 and also, all of your work through Your Property Success, too.
\nJane Slack-Smith has been my special guest on the show. Thank you for your time, Jane.
\nJane:<\/b>\u00a0 Thank you.
\n <\/p>\n

I am ‘surprised’ by this market – Michael Yardney<\/a><\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 No doubt about it. This market just continually surprises, doesn\u2019t it? You look at the growth in Sydney and Melbourne, and there were so many predictions at that start of the year that it just wouldn\u2019t continue, but it has. How do you get on in this kind of market? What do you do? How do you get in there? Michael Yardney<\/a> is going to help us with this question. Michael, of course, is from Metropole Property Strateg<\/a>ies and is a regular on our show.
\nGood day, Michael.
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Hello, Kevin. You\u2019re right; the markets have surprised on the upside, haven\u2019t they?
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Are you surprised by it, Michael?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 I didn\u2019t think they would be as strong as this at the beginning of the year. Yes, I am. Again, not every market. While Sydney and Melbourne, in particular, have done well, even those markets are fragmented. But it\u2019s the shortage of stock in the investment-grade sub-segments, plus low interest rates and increasing confidence since the election. We have noticed on the ground, the properties we\u2019re looking at, this type of investment-grade properties have moved up 5% and in some cases, even 10% in the last six months or so.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, it\u2019s quite staggering, isn\u2019t it? So what can someone do to get into the market when it\u2019s like this, Michael? What would you recommend?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 What I would recommend not<\/i> doing is sitting on the sidelines waiting for things to change, to get better, to get easier. It clearly is a seller\u2019s market. If you have the right type of property, there will be multiple dealers at an auction or people looking to buy as private sale. So a good negotiation tactic I\u2019d start with, Kevin, is don\u2019t be smart; a good negotiation is when you win and actually get the property.
\nI\u2019ve seen people miss out for $2000, for $5000, go to multiple properties and lose out trying to be overly smart, when, in fact, I would be suggesting the best negotiating strategy is when you win.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I have heard you, though, on a number of occasions say, Michael, \u201cI\u2019ve missed out on that one. We didn\u2019t get it.\u201d You have to have a limit though, don\u2019t you?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Of course, you do. But I think what\u2019s happening at the moment, we\u2019re experiencing the words over and over again when we go to an auction and we do set a limit and we lose out is that the person who\u2019s bought is somebody who\u2019s missed two or three times at previous weekends and they\u2019re now one of those emotional buyers who are going to buy at any cost.
\nAnd no, Kevin, you can\u2019t chase them, so the answer is do you your homework, do your sums, but don\u2019t try and be smart. If an opportunity does come around, be prepared to act quickly. Have a look, make sure you\u2019ve done all your correct due diligence, but if you know what you want and you\u2019ve researched the markets and you have finance approval on your side, when you find the right property, be prepared to make an offer early and a firm offer.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, but don\u2019t leave home without a blank check.
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, be prepared to make an offer quickly. If it\u2019s going to auction, go there with a realistic figure knowing it\u2019s going to probably be more expensive that you would have spent six months ago and when you look back in 10 years\u2019 time, you\u2019re going to think, \u201cGee, it was really cheap, wasn\u2019t it?\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s right. The other thing, too, mate, is you can\u2019t be too cute with your offers, can you, in this market?
\nMichael: <\/b>\u00a0No, I don\u2019t think you can. You should buy unconditionally. Don\u2019t try and be smart and make it subject to finance and building and pest inspection and my wife\u2019s cousin\u2019s approval; in fact, be prepared to buy unconditionally or on one condition. The condition we sometimes use that covers all the others is subject to the purchaser\u2019s solicitor\u2019s approval.
\nNow, most vendors, most sellers, most estate agents won\u2019t understand the power of that. Because the purchaser\u2019s solicitor \u2013 my solicitor \u2013 has the right to say, \u201cI don\u2019t approve,\u201d and they can not approve for any type of reason, but it doesn\u2019t sound as intimidating or subject to finance or subject to building and pest inspection.
\nIt\u2019s a simple thing where people say, \u201cOh, the solicitor is not going to give us a hard time. It\u2019s a good contract.\u201d It\u2019s not only the contract he\u2019s looking at, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 With such a hot market and so many properties selling at auction, what about making an offer before auction, Michael?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Interestingly despite the hot market and the very high clearance rates, we\u2019re finding a lot of vendors are prepared to sell before auction. There are two times that they\u2019re prepared to do it, Kevin \u2013 very often right at the beginning of the campaign, because in their mind they\u2019re going to save $20,000 or so in marketing costs, and they\u2019re also a bit scared about what the end result will be. A lot of people find auctions very emotional.
\nThe other time we\u2019re finding in Melbourne, in particular, three to four days before the auction, three days when the cooling off period is now over and the auction conditions are there, people are prepared to sell rather than take the risk of auction. Of course, you\u2019re not going to nab a bargain doing that, but in fact, I\u2019d much rather my buyer\u2019s agent come on a Monday morning and say, \u201cHey, there were four other bidders and I\u2019ve actually outbid them and we got a good property,\u201d than saying, \u201cHey, I got a good bargain because there was no one else at the auction. No one was interested.\u201d I\u2019d wonder \u201cWhat\u2019s going on? What are we missing out on?\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, \u201cWhy is it like that?\u201d What about leveraging your relationships, Michael?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 One of the benefits that we have as buyer\u2019s agents is we know the selling agents in the areas where we\u2019re purchasing, which means they\u2019re going to give us a lot of those opportunities really early in the auction campaign, as I said, or off-market opportunities in private sales.
\nI guess clients come to us about our experience, our knowledge, our relationships. While you can actually get knowledge on the Internet and you can do your homework that way, you actually can\u2019t buy experience, you can\u2019t buy relationships, you can\u2019t buy perspective \u2013 and that\u2019s what, I guess, a good buyer\u2019s agent can bring to the party.
\nAnd they know how to talk with selling agents and we can sometimes dig deep and find out the vendor\u2019s motivation, which the average buyer can\u2019t, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Speaking of motivation, too, Michael, price is not always the only motivator, is it?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 No, it\u2019s not, Kevin. Interestingly, we want to understand when sellers are motivated, because we\u2019re not going to take advantage of people, but we will take advantage of the situation and make sure that they get what they want so that we can get what we want.
\nIf somebody is divorced, you\u2019ll often find they\u2019re very, very keen to get out quickly, even if they don\u2019t get the top dollar because they just need to be out of the house. If people have troubles with debt with the banks and they have deadlines to meet, again, sometimes a quick settlement at a lower price will be more important to them than hanging out and the bank taking over. Death is another common motivating factor where people just want to move on. They want to clear the estate. They don\u2019t want all the emotion involved in it.
\nInterestingly, I\u2019ve found other sellers are sometimes keen to sell to families. They don\u2019t want a developer or somebody to pull down the house \u2013 the house that they\u2019ve lived in and the castle that they\u2019ve built and the family has grown up in.
\nIt\u2019s surprising how often money isn\u2019t the main motivator; there are other secondary ones that you have to look at, as well.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Indeed. Very wise words. Michael, thank you so much for your time.
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 My pleasure, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

  Ed Chan from Chan & Naylor stumps up to answer some questions about land tax from Charlotte. I ask Margaret Lomas about the fairness or otherwise of the compensation you get from Government if your land is resumed and what can you do if…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":9636,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-9635","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nThe fear of overpaying for a property + Expert is \u201csurprised\u201d at the resilience of the market - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/the-fear-of-overpaying-for-a-property-expert-is-surprised-at-the-resilience-of-the-market\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The fear of overpaying for a property + Expert is \u201csurprised\u201d at the resilience of the market - Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"  Ed Chan from Chan & Naylor stumps up to answer some questions about land tax from Charlotte. 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