{"id":9580,"date":"2016-10-13T10:00:16","date_gmt":"2016-10-12T23:00:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=9580"},"modified":"2016-10-13T10:00:16","modified_gmt":"2016-10-12T23:00:16","slug":"what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\/","title":{"rendered":"What you should be telling your kids about property and investing"},"content":{"rendered":"

 
\nEffie Zahos<\/strong> from Money Magazine says she is trying teach her kids the value of money and the power of compound interest.
\nProperty identity and CEO of McGrath Real Estate, John McGrath<\/strong>, adds to the topic of how to educate kids about investing in property and the power of money by sharing his experiences growing up in a family where it wasn\u2019t that important. He sought the advice of mentors outside his family circle.
\nExecutive Chairman and Founder of Aussie Home Loans, John Symond<\/strong>, says kids need to appreciate that money doesn\u2019t grow on trees. He talks about the advice he received from his father that no doubt shaped his thoughts.
\nMichael Yardney<\/strong><\/a> talks about the lessons he was taught by his father and how he has educated his children about investing. Michael says that his father\u2019s plan was, like many people, to get rich by winning the lottery.
\nAs well as talking to us about the topic of educating our children about investing and finance, our feature guest Ken Raiss<\/strong><\/a> says he understands the importance of discussing wealth at home as part of educating them that it is not an evil word. Ken also thinks we should share our adult finance journey with the kids as part of their education.
\nYou will find us at iTunes under podcasts as Real Estate Talk. Listen there for free, leave a review which helps us grow and tells us what you like and how we can improve the show. Don\u2019t forget to subscribe at the site as well \u2013 even if you do get the show through iTunes – so that we can tell you about the bonus offers we make to subscribers. Your questions are welcome through the site as well.
\n <\/p>\n

Transcripts:<\/strong><\/h4>\n

Don’t gamble on a Lotto win – Michael Yardney<\/a><\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Let\u2019s set the scene for this week\u2019s show because we\u2019re going to canvas the thoughts of a number of people \u2013 as many as we can get through in the show, anyway \u2013 about the sorts of advice you should be giving your kids now about money and about property and investing generally and probably in fairness, about life. This is a subject that I\u2019ve discussed many times with my first guest Michael Yardney from Metropole Property Strategists.
\nGood day, Michael.
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Hello, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I know you and I have talked about the importance of the conversations around the table as we\u2019re growing up and getting kids into the understanding about what they should be doing with money and investment generally. Michael, what were you taught?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 I remember my father\u2019s financial plan. Every Saturday morning, he would sit in the kitchen having his cigarettes and a black coffee, and he\u2019d write out this list of things. I asked him, \u2018What is it?\u201d and he said, \u201cThat\u2019s what I\u2019m going to spend my money on when I win the lottery.\u201d Because every Saturday night, he took a lottery ticket. He always won enough to buy a few more tickets but never the big prize.
\nSo his financial plan was winning the lottery, Kevin, and I guess I learned that that\u2019s not the right way to do it.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Certainly. Many people in fact do that, Michael. Many people are guilty of that. What sort of language should we be using with our children?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 First of all, I think you should be talking about money because a lot of people don\u2019t, and then the things that they do say are often the wrong things, and that\u2019s what sets the scene because you\u2019re not born knowing how to do money and your early mentors are your parents. To be honest, most of our parents weren\u2019t wealthy and they\u2019ve learned their bad money habits from their parents.
\nSo I think one should be talking openly about money, about budgeting, about saving, about not taking on too much credit card debt, but also the positive things about rich people aren\u2019t dirty, greedy robbers, but they should be proud of other peoples\u2019 successes and if somebody else can achieve it, so can you, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Michael, I know that you\u2019ve studied this in particular and written books about it, and I know you\u2019ve done many blogs and even videos about it, too. What have you learnt from talking to the people you\u2019ve talked to about getting rich?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 I think the first thing is to see how other rich people think and behave, because there are particular ways they do, and if you do much the same, you can also become that way. Find people who you can emulate and you can model.
\nI think that people should also recognize that you do have to work hard to get money, to become a saver. So the old lessons that they taught years ago of spend less than you earn, save it, invest it, and then reinvest it, are the primary lessons.
\nThe other one is to become financially fluent, to understand a bit about money, understand a bit about credit cards, make sure that you don\u2019t buy anything on a credit card that you can\u2019t pay off by the end of the month.
\nMaybe there\u2019s one other one, Kevin also, that you have to enjoy the journey, that the person with the most toys at the end isn\u2019t necessarily the winner. So while it is important to talk about saving and investing for the future, also enjoy your life and it\u2019s not all about money, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 No, it\u2019s not. Michael, do you think that this generation\u2026 Or is it speaking too generally to say that kids nowadays think differently about these things?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 I think that the way kids think today is very much dependent upon what they see with their parents. I know when I was younger and my kids were younger, because I went without, I probably gave my kids a little bit too much because I didn\u2019t want them to go through the hardship that I went through. Sometimes parents overcompensate in one direction or the other.
\nBut I\u2019m very proud of the way my kids have come out. In my blended family, I have six kids and nine grandkids, and most of them have learned good money habits and good discipline and have gotten into the property market as investors. Because one of the other big lessons to teach them is the sooner you get on the property ladder, even though it\u2019s hard, the better it is because then you have that compounding and time working for you.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Michael, you shared right at the start of this chat a great story about your dad sitting around the table and how he was going to spend his money from his lottery win or whatever. What are some of the other lessons you learnt growing up that you\u2019ve taken forward now, or things you wish you\u2019d been told then?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 I did learn a lot of lessons when I grew up, but interestingly it wasn\u2019t from my parents. My mentors were my friends\u2019 parents when I saw that they owned real estate and they took a punt financially while my parents didn\u2019t. I saw that they were able to go away on holidays at Christmas time and we weren\u2019t able to. I saw that they had cars and my parents didn\u2019t have a car until I was about 10 or 11 years old.
\nI also learned that they invested in real estate, so it was a lesson that I learned and I decided not<\/i> to be like my parents and have to argue at the end of each month about who gets paid and who doesn\u2019t get paid. I found positive mentors and I was lucky to have those people around me to give the inspiration to move forward.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Michael, the three top things that you think we should be doing with our kids now to instill this common sense into them. What should we be doing?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 First of all, talk about money and teach them about financial fluency, about credit card debts, about debt, teach them to save, and teach them to invest.
\nNumber two, give them information about real estate and about property. I remember my kids telling me that I used to drag them to open for inspections and the properties I\u2019d been building and the properties I\u2019d been buying, and that left them a positive influence about it. So talk to them about it positively.
\nAlso, teach them respect for people who are successful, who have already achieved success, and give them the confidence to know that if they work hard and save hard, they also can be successful.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Michael, before I let you go, what books should we be sharing with our kids, apart from yours, of course?
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 Mine talk about property, but also over the last few years about finance and getting rich. But I think Secrets of the Millionaire Mind <\/i>by T. Harv Eker talks about the way successful people in all areas of life think, so that\u2019s a great one to teach your kids.
\nRobert Kiyosaki\u2019s books are very, very good in the areas of money and finance. I don\u2019t think his property strategies work in Australia, Kevin, because the rules in America are very different, but there are some great lessons to be learned from Robert Kiyosaki.
\nAnd Tom Corley\u2019s book Rich Habits, <\/i>where he\u2019s unpacked the way that the rich people act and behave differently to the average person is also a good one to have on your reading list.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Great talking to you, Michael. Thank you for spending some time with us and sharing your wisdom. Great talking to you, mate. Thank you.
\nMichael:<\/b>\u00a0 My pleasure, Kevin.
\n <\/p>\n

The power of compound interest – Effie Zahos<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>A fascinating topic: what advice should be giving your children about money, and what advice do you wish someone had told you when you were younger? Effie Zahos is the editor of Money <\/i>magazine and also the author of that great book The Great $20 Adventure.<\/i>
\nGood day, Effie.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>Hello.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Good to be talking to you again. Tell me, what finance and investment advice do you give your kids?
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>Believe me, I do give them quite a bit, because the one thing I don\u2019t want to be stuck in is a situation where they\u2019re still at home when they\u2019re 30. I think it\u2019s very important for all parents to get their kids financially savvy, because we are in a situation where kids are not wanting to leave home, and why should they? If we make it too comfortable for them, they\u2019re going to stick around.
\nThe thing I teach my kids with money \u2013 I have a 10-year-old and a 15-year-old \u2013 are very different in their approach, but really the value of money is important for them to understand, and we do live in a society now where they probably don\u2019t see a lot of cash. A lot of it is done over the Internet, through cards and so on, so they\u2019ve really lost the value of money, the meaning of money, and the importance of compound interest.
\nBoth my children do understand what compound interest is \u2013 interest on interest \u2013 because it\u2019s only then that they get excited about saving.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>My earliest memory of money was the smell of money. I used to love opening my birthday card or Christmas card or whatever it was, and there would be money in there, and I could smell it.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. They don\u2019t have that now, do they? That\u2019s gone. And money flows out too easily. I actually believe once a child can count, then they should be introduced to the world of money, and get them to actually spend it, use it, make mistakes.
\nWhether you pay them pocket money or not, that\u2019s kind of irrelevant \u2013 and that\u2019s really up to you as parents or guardians to work out how to manage that \u2013 but it\u2019s important that they understand\u2026 This is a tip that goes right through life, and editing something like Money Magazine<\/i> for 20 years, I\u2019ve seen people who earn six-digit figures who can\u2019t put together a couple of hundred dollars. Then I\u2019ve seen others who are on the minimum wage and manage to buy investment properties as well as a homes.
\nIt\u2019s not what you earn that counts; it\u2019s what you spend, and I say that to my kids quite a lot. And because they do manage their own money and they have a bank account, they know exactly \u201cIf I do spend this, it\u2019s gone. The cash has gone out of my wallet.\u201d I have a 10-year-old for whom now the pain of spending money is far greater than the pleasure of buying something, which is great.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s difficult when you\u2019re young to understand that there comes a time in your life when the money that you frittered away when you were young would have been even more valuable as you get older. We tend to live for the present. I know in my generation, we did. \u201cWhat the hell, we\u2019re young; we have some money in our pocket; let\u2019s just have some fun with it.\u201d Saving didn\u2019t seem to be as important as it is today.
\nMaybe it\u2019s just because I had gotten older, I don\u2019t know.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>I think age does bring with it wisdom. And you\u2019re absolutely right; I look around at 20-year-olds and you talk to them about super, and it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat? No, I\u2019ll never be that age.\u201d But probably one of my biggest regrets is that I did not salary-sacrifice when I started my first job.
\nI finished university, and then I did a degree in economics and worked at a major bank. I remember this day clearly, because my mate who was sitting next to me did say he was going to salary-sacrifice.
\nA financial advisor came around and said, \u201cWould you like to put some of your pay into a superannuation fund?\u201d And I was like, \u201cAre you kidding me? No.\u201d Had I done that today, just put away $50 each pay \u2013 and I was paid fortnightly; it was only $25 dollars; I wouldn\u2019t have noticed it \u2013 my super fund would be a lot more \u00a0healthier than it is now.
\nSure, I\u2019m catching up now, but it\u2019s the little things. Like if you cook one extra meal at home each month and you put that in your super fund, you\u2019d have an extra $40,000 almost there. It\u2019s the little things that count, and that\u2019s the thing you have to get to your kids.
\nBut more importantly, do involve them in your finances. I find that once my children understand how hard it is to earn a dollar and how it\u2019s spent, they appreciate it more. So they get involved in the family bills. They see the electricity bill, they see the phone bills, and they get a good understanding. They manage their own phone plans, so they know when to go somewhere and get free Wi-Fi data instead of using their own, so they appreciate it more.
\nI think if you shield them from your financial affairs and make out that everything is okay and everything is easy breezy, you really are doing a disservice for them.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s a very valuable lesson, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s a great insight. Kids with money, do you think that they should be made to save money, or should they be shown the benefits of it? There is a difference.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>There is a difference, but I am from the old school, that you just jump in, throw yourself into it. I like the tactile approach of you having to save yourself and spend yourself. You can do all the theory you like, but for me, I learn best if I\u2019m doing it myself.
\nI think in the case of kids, give them an account. Get them to save some, get them to spend some. Exactly what ratio that is, I\u2019ll leave that up to your listeners to do. But if they don\u2019t actually open it and do the mechanics themselves, they don\u2019t really appreciate or understand it.
\nThen from a parent\u2019s point of view, if your kids are serious savers, do understand the tax implication of things. Children don\u2019t pay any tax on the first $416 of unearned income, but after that, the tax rate can be as high as 68%.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Goodness.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>So, if you\u2019re stashing a bit of cash, maybe get some expert advice as to where or whose names it should be in. If you\u2019re buying shares for your kids, you can\u2019t buy them in your kids\u2019 name if they\u2019re under 18; you have to buy it as trustee for your children, and then you can transfer it to them later without paying capital gains. Once you start moving to the bigger end of town, you do need to think a little bit and be strategic with them.
\nBut if you have got younger kids \u2013 like 9, 10, 15 \u2013 open a kids\u2019 account. They\u2019re not going to get rich with it. I can tell you better places to put your money than in a bank account, but that\u2019s not what it\u2019s for. It\u2019s really to teach them, to show them, \u201cGo online, see the statement, see what interest you\u2019re earning.\u201d
\nThe sad reality is like my 15-year-old said to me the other day, \u201cI only earned a dollar interest, are you kidding me?\u201d because rates are so low.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Are we good at teaching our kids financial literacy in schools?
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>We haven\u2019t been for a long time, and I really have to thank my boss in a way, Paul Clitheroe, for putting financial literacy onto the school curriculum. Now, it does differ from school to school when it gets introduced and in what subjects, but it\u2019s only just starting to really roll out in schools \u2013 and it\u2019s about time. I think financial literacy should be taught in all manners.
\nWhen you think about, say, music \u2013 let\u2019s say your child is gifted, creative, and so on \u2013 who better needs financial advice than someone in the arts? Because their income is so irregular, they have to make their pay last for ages, so any way they can sneak financial literacy \u2013 it applies to everything with do \u2013 can only do better for the economy as a whole.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Indeed, great talking to you. Let\u2019s round this chat out with a bit of a plug for you, too, The Great $20 Adventure<\/i>. I\u2019m a great believer in that. Where do we get it from?
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s from magshop.com.au. You can buy it online, or in any good book store. This book really came about because my son kept spending everything he had. He just would not save. So these characters came to life, I think after a couple of arguments with my son, and maybe a nice glass of red, and these are characters we meet in real life.
\nA little boy gets his hands on some birthday money and he automatically thinks he has to spend it, but his mother says, \u201cGo for a walk,\u201d and he comes across these animals. You have Donnie Dangerous who guarantees to double it. Believe me, I\u2019ve met a few Donnie Dangerous in my life. You have Ms. Pennysaver who says save, the entrepreneur, Queen Bee, Mr. Giving, the philanthropist. So this child is left with a big decision to make and realizes that you can do more with your money than just spend it.
\nHe definitely changed his tune: he doesn\u2019t spend a cent now, which means he\u2019s costing me more.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well done. Well worth writing the book.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>It was.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s called The Great $20 Adventure<\/i>, written by Effie Zahos, who has been our guest. Effie, of course, is the editor of Money<\/i> magazine.
\nEffie, always great talking to you, thank you so much for your time.
\nEffie:\u00a0 <\/b>Thank you.
\n <\/p>\n

Seek advice outside the family unit – John McGrath<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, to continue our topic this morning about the advice that you should be giving your children about real estate, I\u2019m joined by John McGrath.
\nNow, good morning, John.
\nJohn<\/b>:\u00a0 Good morning, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>John, I\u2019m really keen to get your perspective on this. I want to talk to you about the company, too, and its phenomenal growth. But just before we do, is there anything that you wish you had known when you were younger, about starting out and investing in property that you\u2019ve now learned?
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>Probably not a lot, Kevin, because I was fortunate that I was surrounded by a couple of great mentors, and their advice\u2026 Actually, I was probably clever enough at that point, one of the few things I did well in my early stage of career was to take their advice, which was to invest as early as I could and live very frugally and utilize property as \u2013 if you like \u2013 a forced saving.
\nI bought my first property in inner Sydney when I was about 20, turning 21. Believe it or not, it was $90,000 in those days, and of course, you\u2019re lucky to get anything under $1.5 million now in Sydney, in those price ranges.
\nBut the key thing around advice is not how to find good sage advice; the key is do you take it and are you disciplined? I put all my savings aside, I lived within my means, and I cobbled together a little deposit, bought a property, and once you\u2019re on the first rung of that ladder, subsequent purchases seem to be a little bit easier.
\nKevin: <\/b>\u00a0Yes, I\u2019ve heard many stories about you as a young person going along to auction. You obviously had an interest in real estate from a very young age, John.
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, yes. Funnily enough, Kevin, not at school. It was my unfortunate HSC result that made me have a real think about what I wanted to do with my life. It was soon after school, I thought real estate would be an interesting career, and the more I learned about it and I got into it, the more I loved it.
\nThe people side, I\u2019ve loved for 33 years, the property side, the design side. The investment side is great because I\u2019ve seen people now, I\u2019ve sold them portfolios of properties. Like we\u2019ve just been talking, they started when they\u2019re in their early to mid-20s, and they\u2019ve now amassed 10 or 15 properties, and that\u2019s exciting to be a part of that journey, as well.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>John, what were the conversations like around the kitchen table when you were growing up? Did they relate to property at all or investing?
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>No, not particularly, Kevin. My family was just an ordinary family, and my father used to run a pub. So my forte in my early days was at sport, and I wanted to be a sportsperson, and unfortunately, injury prevented that.
\nI was not particularly from a business background, but the minute I got involved in business, I found it intriguing, even as a late teen. Unfortunately, I didn\u2019t do well in the high school certificate as I mentioned, and I\u2019m not particularly proud or not proud of that. It was just a fact, I didn\u2019t apply myself, because I thought sport was going to be my lifelong career \u2013 at least my career for a period.
\nAnyway, when that wasn\u2019t to happen, I started thinking, \u201cWhat am I going to do next?\u201d And real estate, for me, was just something that was a very important part of life. We all need a roof over our head. It was a great way to earn money.
\nI used to read BRW 200 Rich List when I was very, very young and dream about \u201cWhat have these people done?\u201d I used to see, every third one was property. They had property as a base of their wealth. I thought, \u201cWell, yes. It\u2019s interesting, it\u2019s important to society, and it\u2019s a particularly good way to build some wealth in the future.
\nThat was the starting point and the more I got into it, and hopefully, the better I got at it, it turned out to be very much that way.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>John, the company that bears your name, one of the fastest growing real estate companies in Australia, it\u2019s been a huge success for you. You\u2019ve mentioned a couple of times about your HSC results. How do you go from something like that to being the founder of such a hugely successful business?
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>Look, I think it\u2019s one of those things in life, you know. They talk about taking overnight success taking 20 years, and I think the catalyst for me getting serious about life was a very bad HSC. I got 18% in the HSC, and as I said, it\u2019s not something that I want people, young kids, to role model me on.
\nBut it is what it was, and I did find that I was in a very painful period in my late teens, and the only way that I felt I could get out of it was get good at something. When sport no longer became a career path for me, I really put my head down, and it was really, just one day at a time.
\nI started renting flats as an 18 year old, Kevin, and I got very good at that. Then I started selling when I was 20, selling real estate, and after six very slow months \u2013 at the beginning, the first six months I didn\u2019t sell a property \u2013 but I got my act together after that, and then it really grew from there.
\nIt\u2019s one of those things like when people haven\u2019t visited your kids for a while and they say, \u201cGod, your kids have grown,\u201d and you look at them and think, \u201cThey have,\u201d but when you see it every day, it doesn\u2019t have that same impact. I guess, my career, I think about it as just 33 years of everyday, going to the office, trying to do a little bit better, trying to support my team, delivering great service to customers. Then when you look at it, you think, \u201cWell ok, if I look back, it has been an exciting ride.\u201d
\nBut, I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, Kevin, I\u2019m very fixated on the future, so rather than dwelling too much on \u201cWhat have we done thus far?\u201d I\u2019m very excited about \u201cWhat are we going to do?\u201d I think that\u2019s a big part of it. You\u2019re continually stretching yourself to just see how far you can go as an individual and indeed how far your company can go as a group of individuals.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>That looking ahead that you just said, John, do you think that\u2019s helped you stay grounded? There have been tremendous success and there have been a lot of disappointments, I guess, along the way, too. But that staying grounded is fairly important in continuing that growth, isn\u2019t it?
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>I think so, Kevin. Look, not everyone who achieves some level of success remains humble and grounded, which I think is very unfortunate because I see a lot of successful people, and some of them, it totally goes to their head and they really become unattractive people in many ways. They\u2019re still successful, no doubt.
\nI\u2019ve always felt all-round success, which is healthy, happy, good friendships, doing something you love, and if there\u2019s a great financial reward that comes with that, that\u2019s a bonus.
\nBut, I think when you come from humble beginnings, and you work your way through, I think the smarter people realize we\u2019re all the same. No one\u2019s better than anyone else. We all have some degree of fortune and luck in our lives.
\nYou\u2019re right; it\u2019s the disappointments along the way that are inevitable. Anyone who thinks they can achieve great success without having a degree of failure along the way, it\u2019s just not going to happen.
\nYou\u2019re always going to have disappointments. Perhaps the more successful one becomes, or a company becomes, or an individual, the more people like to take pot-shots at you, and I think that\u2019s just a part of the journey. You have to be able to deal with that because I don\u2019t think you can avoid it. Success, to some degree, polarizes people and attracts attention.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>John, great talking to you. Thank you for giving us your time today. Congratulations on what you\u2019re doing with the business, too, and all success for the future.
\nJohn:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin. It\u2019s always a pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for having me.
\n <\/p>\n

Share your adult finance journey with the kids – Ken Raiss<\/a><\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019m pleased to say that our feature interview in this show, which is where we\u2019re talking about the message that you give your children, is none other than Ken Raiss<\/a>. Ken is a regular on our show.
\nI imagine you have really been drilling this into your kids over the years, Ken. How are you?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019m well. Thank you, Kevin. Hi, listeners. Drilling is probably not the right word.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s my terminology, Ken.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Kids take it in at a different rate or a different pace, so you definitely have to tailor the discussions to the individual child. But I think it\u2019s important to talk about wealth at home so that children start to understand that it\u2019s not a dirty word and that it can actually be very helpful in doing the other things they want to aspire to in life.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 We can actually shield our kids a bit too much, can\u2019t we? In other words, for them to think that it\u2019s just a bottomless pit. We don\u2019t involve them in the fact that things are a little bit tight and we may have to cut back a little bit. It doesn\u2019t hurt to share that with them when they get to a certain age, Ken?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 It certainly doesn\u2019t, and I think it also helps to share the solutions that you put in place and why so that kids start to get values around that. That, I think, is very important even at a very young age to start instilling those sorts of values with your children.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019ll come back to talking about those kinds of messages, Ken. But I\u2019m really keen to find out from you what molded you. How did Ken Raiss grow up, and what were the conversations around your kitchen table like?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Can I say there were none? Then all of a sudden, at age 17, I found myself in the big, wide world and had to survive.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It was pretty much the way it was, wasn\u2019t it?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 It was pretty much the way it was.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 What do you wish they had told you?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s like crying over spilt milk.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, but there are some good lessons to be learned over that, aren\u2019t there?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. What I\u2019ve done is while not trying to talk to my children along the lines of what I wish I had been talked about or taught, I brought it to a more contemporary situation \u2013 because there are 20 to 30 years, depending on when you have children, between when you would have a conversation with your parents to when you have a conversation with children, and you learn a lot in that period of time.
\nThe discussions I\u2019ve had with my children have taken into account my own experiences \u2013 and can I dare say that of many of our clients as well? Because you learn from everybody through life. It was really instilling in them core values \u2013 and I can expand on some of these \u2013 teaching them to save, making sure they pay their bills on time, teaching them that they have to do some work; you get nothing for nothing.
\nAnd as the kids got a bit older, how to buy a property and, really, the methodology and the process you go through to invest, I think, is very important because they don\u2019t teach you that at school \u2013 and there are shortcuts, if I can put it that way.
\nThe shortcuts are you don\u2019t make the mistakes and lose a lot of time. If you can leapfrog and teach your children to leapfrog, they get to where they want to get financially, I think, much quicker, and certainly, with less heartache.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 As a parent, there is that instinct \u2013 isn\u2019t there? \u2013 that we want to help our kids, we want to cushion them, make it as easy as we possibly can, so therefore that has led, over the years, to us maybe giving them a little bit too much or making it too easy for them.
\nI\u2019m not saying in your case, Ken, but certainly, many of the people I speak to, they\u2019ve made that mistake and they\u2019ve suffered by it because the kids don\u2019t fully appreciate the value of money.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Correct. They don\u2019t see money as a means to an end. Money, really, just is the tool you use to achieve your other goals and objectives, whether it be a work\/life balance, whether it be to pursue your dreams, or whether it\u2019s to give to charity. Money is the tool, so I think you have to teach children that money is not the be-all and end-all; it\u2019s what you do with it.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Money is not something where you just got to a thing in the wall and it pops out.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s it, the Bank of Mom and Dad.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You actually have to earn it, don\u2019t you?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Correct. You have to teach your children the values of earning it and then they value it.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Let\u2019s broaden this conversation just a little bit. I\u2019m keen to hear about you and your journey. I know you\u2019re at that stage in life where you\u2019ve intelligently put aside a nest egg so that you\u2019re never going to really suffer. But where did it all begin for you? Where was your first investment property?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think my first investment property was around age 22 or 23. But can I say my first investment\u2026? I don\u2019t necessarily think I would do it again this way, but I first started investing in super as a 17-year-old \u2013 unheard of in those days.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think that\u2019s not necessarily the way to go today because you can\u2019t get your hands on it. That\u2019s what I didn\u2019t realize at that point in time. I was doing it for when I\u2019m <\/b>65.
\nI think the savings component of investing in super was the critical thing, and that\u2019s why I\u2019ve taught my children that they need to save. Even when they\u2019re at school, go and get a part-time job \u2013 not so much that your studies suffer, of course, but to instill those life lessons in you. Once they\u2019re working, put at least 10% aside to save for investing.
\nThe hardest lesson, I think, I found to instill was debt is not a dirty word. Debt is not evil. Debt is not something that will cause you great heartache. Like anything, improper use of debt can certainly create all of those problems, but thought through with a risk strategy, debt is your friend because leverage is what\u2019s important. Save a bit, borrow the rest, and understanding how you\u2019re going to fund that debt is very important.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Intelligent use of debt, isn\u2019t it? Keeping it in perspective. There was a time when there was a saying that said \u201cIt\u2019s our national responsibility to have as much debt as we possibly can and then work like hell to pay it off.\u201d I don\u2019t know that I necessarily follow with that.
\nThe other interesting word you used there \u2013 and I want to talk to you about that \u2013 is risk. As a young person, I remember my risk profile was actually high \u2013 I was quite prepared to take pretty high risks \u2013 but as I got older, I found I became a lot more risk-averse. Do you think most people are like that?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think most people start off very risk-averse. Risk takes on many different guises, of course: not only the debt, but I just notice even the difference in the types of properties my kids bought. A property that they could do a reno was one of my children. Another one who really just didn\u2019t like the idea of that, we bought something that didn\u2019t require any work.
\nBut in all cases, I got them to learn how to research what type of properties grow. It\u2019s the capital value that I taught them, not the income stream at the beginning, because as that capital grows, you can then borrow against it to then go and buy the next investment property. The income from the rent doesn\u2019t help you greatly in achieving that growth projectile.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s leverage you\u2019re talking about there.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. Leverage it, but buy a property that has good capital growth because that\u2019s what gets you into the next property \u2013 the increased value that you can borrow against.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 What was your worst investment?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 My worst investment, I think, was an emotional purchase of a unit on the waterfront within a large development.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Was that new off-the-plan?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t off-the-plan; it was completed, but it was very similar to an off-the-plan purchase. I had bought three other off-the-plan properties, which all did very well, and it took me many years to realize it was more dumb luck than me. I just so happened to be in the right place at the right time.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 There was a time when buying off-the-plan actually made a lot of sense. You could actually buy off-the-plan, flip it, and make some money before completion but you can\u2019t do that nowadays.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 No. Can I say the world, the developers, and the banking institutions are too smart for that?
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 They are.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 I signed a contract close to the bottom of the cycle, three-year construction, and when it was time to settle, the property had certainly grown at least close to 50% in value. It took me a while to realize that wasn\u2019t me who did that.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You were Johnny-on-the-spot. You said that was your worst investment. Was it your worst because you bought it with the wrong mindset? Was it like you were what I call the ice cream licker, in love with the lifestyle purchase?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, that was a very emotional purchase. It was probably the only one I\u2019ve made emotionally, and coincidentally, it\u2019s the only one that really didn\u2019t do well. But what I did is I came to that realization pretty quickly and sold it. I sold it at a loss, but cut my losses and rolled that money into something else. A lot of people can\u2019t do that.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You learn from those mistakes, don\u2019t you?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. I think the big lesson was cut your losses. I review my properties periodically, and the one question I ask myself is \u201cWould I buy that today?\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Obviously, the answer is no. What has been your best investment, Ken, that you would say, \u201cI\u2019m really proud of this one, I\u2019m so glad I did this, it\u2019s still in my portfolio, and it\u2019s going to stay there forever\u201d? Is there one of those?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 There are ones, but they\u2019re much later in life where I had the resources behind me that I could fund a construction. Hence, the utilization of the land from one property to multiple properties.
\nThere, again, people can make a lot of mistakes: they build the wrong thing, they overcapitalize, they make it a piece of artwork as opposed to a good, solid investment property. I brought all of those principles in, and it was the ability to use land for multiples as opposed to one, so they\u2019ve done quite well.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Ken, <\/b>putting you on the spot here now \u2013 not as if I haven\u2019t done that already, and you\u2019ve responded very well, thank you \u2013 but in closing out, I just want to ask you what you\u2019ve learned over the years, maybe the biggest mistakes that you\u2019ve seen investors make. Let\u2019s talk about property. What are the biggest mistakes you\u2019ve seen investors make that you wish you could get them by the scruff of the neck and say, \u201cHey, listen, don\u2019t do that; it\u2019s not good\u201d? What would they be?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 They bought the absolute wrong property from the beginning. There is a thought, I think, among many investors that you can make money out of property. If you live long enough, you might, but you need to truncate the time to use it within your lifetime and certainly, within a relatively young age, not \u201cI\u2019m 100 and I\u2019ve now made money out of property.\u201d They haven\u2019t done the research to buy the right property.
\nThe next mistake is they haven\u2019t structured it and put it in the right name. Thirdly, I think they haven\u2019t created a system that allows them to fund that property when times go sour. I use the word \u201cbuffer.\u201d You need to create a pool of resources that can help you through the bad times, just in case.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Is there a percentage to that buffer, if you look at your overall portfolio, or is it all about how much gearing you have?
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s all about how much gearing you have, but the buffer is not a dollar value as much as a time period: how much time do you want to feel safe or safer if something goes wrong? If that\u2019s ten years for you, you\u2019d better have ten years\u2019 worth of money in case things go sour. If it\u2019s two years, then have two years. Because what you want to be able to do is have an orderly exit. By that, I mean a sale in case you want to.
\nYou don\u2019t want the banks knocking on your door forcing you to sell and maybe accept a fire-sale price. You\u2019d want at least a couple of years, I would have thought, because in most instances, you can have an orderly sale in that period of time.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Ken, you make so much sense \u2013 you always do and I appreciate you giving us so much of your very valuable time today.
\nKen Raiss has been my guest, and he\u2019s been our feature guest this week in the show. Ken, thanks for your time. I look forward to catching up with you again soon.
\nKen:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks very much, Kevin.
\n <\/p>\n

“Money does not grow on trees” – John Symond<\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 With some advice on the topic now, John Symond, executive chairman and founder of Aussie Home Loans.
\nJohn, thanks again for your time. What advice would you give your children on investing and money?
\nJohn:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, first of all, kids have to appreciate that money doesn\u2019t grow on trees. Dad used to tell me as a kid, he\u2019d say, \u201cSon, it\u2019s so much easier spending money than earning money, so be very, very careful.\u201d You have to make sure that the kids understand the real meaning of that, because nothing comes easy. To live and pay your bills and then hope to have a few bob over to save is very difficult.
\nI make sure my kids appreciate the value of money. If money\u2019s there, it doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s there to be spent. They have to be careful. And I suggest to them that when they can, a safe investment long-term is buying a property \u2013 \u00a0if not to live in, to rent out \u2013 because it\u2019s not as volatile as other forms of investment.
\nI always listened to my dad on that. I\u2019ve always loved housing. I\u2019ve been working in the housing industry \u2013 finance and property \u2013 now for the best part of 40 years.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I understood you grew up\u2026 Your mom and dad, I think, owned a fruit shop. Is that right?
\nJohn:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, a number of fruit shops, Kevin. I went to 11 schools. Every day after school, even as a 10-year-old, I\u2019d come home with my older brother and sister. I\u2019m one of seven. My older brother and sister in those days, we\u2019d go straight to the back of the fruit shop, help bag potatoes and apples and polish fruit. We did all those types of things. And weekends we used to take turns minding the shop.
\nBut, wow, I say to people, I went to two universities, 11 schools, but my best education was from my parents, who had very little formal education. But they made me appreciate how important it was to look after your customers, the importance of working very hard, and acting truthfully with integrity. I learned some terrific stuff from my mom and dad.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting listening to people like yourself, successful people, and the conversations around the kitchen table and the lessons you learn from your parents. What were the conversation like at your kitchen table? Were they about money?
\nJohn:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, it was about life, really. Even though I had a very modest upbringing because we didn\u2019t have money. We lived on the back or on top of the fruit shops. Mom and dad would build up the fruit shop and over about a 12-month period, sell it for a profit. We\u2019d hop on the back of the fruit truck. We couldn\u2019t afford a car. We\u2019d go to the next suburb, open another shop, sold the other one, and it goes on and on.
\nI used to talk to them, \u201cHow long, mom, do you think we\u2019re going to be here?\u201d Because after the first two or three moves at a young age, I was expecting that in the next six months or so, we\u2019ll move to another place, which meant another school.
\nBut as a young kid, I never realized the value in me embracing change. Because as a kid I was going through it. We had a happy household. We used to joke a lot. Dad would make sure we always had food on the table. The family always came first.
\nWe would talk about moving, where we were going to move to. They\u2019d always make it sound interesting and fun. We laughed a lot as a family, and we worked hard, and all the kids were involved in working hard. Mom raising seven kids, she would be in the fruit shop serving customers with the apron on. Dad would be unloading the truck with his singlet on, sweating profusely.
\nAt times, I used to think he was going to break his back with the big bags of potatoes in those days with the two pick that you\u2019d stick in the bag and throw it on your back. I used to think his back\u2019s going to break.
\nBut anyway, we had a very good upbringing, I learned a lot, and as I said, the best things in life\u2013 the most important things, I learned in life was from my mom and dad.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I know, unfortunately, your dad\u2019s no longer with us. Did he have the opportunity to see how successful you had become, John? Was that a proud moment?
\nJohn:<\/b>\u00a0 Mom passed before dad. They were really proud of me. They knew that I was wanting to help change the system to give Australians a better go and all the rest of it. I\u2019m really grateful that they were around to see that we were making a difference. I know that they were very proud parents, and that made me feel good. I\u2019m thankful that they were around when we did make a real difference.
\nIt makes me very sensitive to having the background and the experience I had of not having money, moving around every year, going to 11 schools, watching my parents physically work hard. It made me always remember my background. It gave me the opportunity of understanding the average moms and dads and how tough they do it and how hard it is to put food on the table and educate your kids.
\nThat was a big advantage that I felt I had over a lot of other senior executives because I\u2019d been through it.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, John, I appreciate you giving us your time. I know it\u2019s a busy time for you. I think, as we speak to you now, you\u2019re in Darwin. You continue your travels and a very active life and a very successful business. Thank you for giving us your time and a great insight.
\nJohn:<\/b>\u00a0 No, great. I\u2019m opening another Aussie store and I\u2019m trying to do the right thing. But thank you, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

  Effie Zahos from Money Magazine says she is trying teach her kids the value of money and the power of compound interest. Property identity and CEO of McGrath Real Estate, John McGrath, adds to the topic of how to educate kids about investing in…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":9581,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-9580","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nWhat you should be telling your kids about property and investing - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"What you should be telling your kids about property and investing - Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"  Effie Zahos from Money Magazine says she is trying teach her kids the value of money and the power of compound interest. Property identity and CEO of McGrath Real Estate, John McGrath, adds to the topic of how to educate kids about investing in...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-10-12T23:00:16+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"rolanrush\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"rolanrush\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"42 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"rolanrush\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/384a57ac9e52cb9bf19896cb15eaa52d\"},\"headline\":\"What you should be telling your kids about property and investing\",\"datePublished\":\"2016-10-12T23:00:16+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":8397,\"commentCount\":0,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"\",\"keywords\":[\"podcast\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Kevin Turner\",\"Kevin's Update\",\"Latest Stories\",\"Shows\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/\",\"name\":\"What you should be telling your kids about property and investing - Realty Talk\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"\",\"datePublished\":\"2016-10-12T23:00:16+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/384a57ac9e52cb9bf19896cb15eaa52d\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"\",\"contentUrl\":\"\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/what-you-should-be-telling-your-kids-about-property-and-investing\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"What you should be telling your kids about property and investing\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/\",\"name\":\"Realty Talk\",\"description\":\"Your Trusted Voice For Property Investing. 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