{"id":21838,"date":"2018-07-20T01:00:04","date_gmt":"2018-07-19T15:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=21838"},"modified":"2018-07-20T01:00:04","modified_gmt":"2018-07-19T15:00:04","slug":"our-annual-property-update-dont-believe-the-headlines-sharing-the-mortgage-load","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/our-annual-property-update-dont-believe-the-headlines-sharing-the-mortgage-load\/","title":{"rendered":"Our annual property update + Don\u2019t believe the headlines + Sharing the mortgage load"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong><em><u>Highlights from this week: <\/u><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>One third of Aussie are willing to co-share<\/li>\n<li>A GST \u2018loop-hole\u2019 revealed<\/li>\n<li>Our annual property update<\/li>\n<li>\u201cAvoid panic\u201d says one expert<\/li>\n<li>Business guru impacts a property business<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Transcript:<\/strong><\/p>\n<h2>\u201cAvoid panic\u201d says one expert &#8211;\u00a0Josh Masters<\/h2>\n\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>There\u2019s always mixed reporting about the property market, but I think we have to understand that with every bit of bad news, there\u2019s always some good news as well. But we also have to remember that bad news sells newspapers and sells stories. Unfortunately, a lot of what we read is believed and is seen to be the whole story.<\/p>\n<p>I want to talk to Josh Masters from BuySide about this. Josh has written a number of articles, one of which we\u2019re going to talk about now.<\/p>\n<p>Good day, Josh. How are you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>Good day, Kevin. I\u2019m doing very well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>I was telling you prior to this interview about the conversation I\u2019ve had with a number of elderly people at a conference I\u2019ve just come away from today, and they\u2019re concerned about the market. Unfortunately, a lot of the press we see is all doom and gloom, bad news, the market is plunging, and all this kind of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>So, I can understand why they would be concerned, but we have to balance it up. There are a couple of reports that I know we\u2019re going to talk about now that have just been released. Talk about those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>Kevin, it\u2019s important to note that the media feeds on hype, and the more they can go into an exaggerated viewpoint, the more papers they\u2019re going to sell or placements they\u2019re going to sell. I think recently, we\u2019ve seen a lot of that come out. But to bring it back into perspective, there have been two great reports that CoreLogic have brought out recently, one around the volatility of the market and which price points really outperform versus others.<\/p>\n<p>The graph that I pulled up was the fact that the cheapest margin in the price brackets actually shows the least volatility over time, which means if you want to preserve your capital, it\u2019s often good to get into the cheaper end of the market. It doesn\u2019t go up as high as some others do, but it also doesn\u2019t dip, and it very rarely goes into negative territory.<\/p>\n<p>On the flipside, we\u2019re seeing some of the most expensive properties right now really suffering, and you have to ask why? But in history, it\u2019s actually been some of the most expensive properties that have been the most volatile. So, in good times, they really go up by a lot, but in bad times, they actually fall into negative territory quite badly.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of the media releases that we see these days, when you actually dig into where this negative territory is coming from, they\u2019re actually highlighting the fact that it\u2019s probably more so in the $3 million to $5 million price range. And that actually is reflected in CoreLogic data.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>We\u2019ll get a copy of that graph too, with CoreLogic\u2019s permission, and we\u2019ll put it into the transcript. This interview will be transcribed, so go down below and you\u2019ll see the graph that Josh is talking about.<\/p>\n<p>Mate, pull this into perspective for me \u2013 maybe relate it back to what happened around 1988, 1991, 1992, that era.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>Look, the property market, as much as people like to say it always goes up, it doesn\u2019t. It does fall into negative territory. And it\u2019s important to go back in time and look at the historical data and see where the dips have occurred. I think the second chart that we looked at with CoreLogic highlighted the declines in the market \u2013 for brief periods.<\/p>\n<p>And if you look back far enough, you go back to 1992 when Hawke and Keating were in government \u2013 or at least Keating anyway \u2013 there was the recession that we had to have, as they said. And that was when we saw the greatest declines in the property market in Australia in the last 30 or 35 years, which actually totaled around 11.6%.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I think that was around 1988, 1991, something like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>You were saying you just got into real estate at that time, and you had to go and tell people that their houses were worth a lot less. And it would have been quite significant at that time, because this is just an average figure, 11.6%.<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s good to keep in perspective when people say \u201cOh, the markets are falling,\u201d we see the stock market go up and down like a yoyo, but to think that the most decline in the market was 11.6% for property, it\u2019s actually not too bad in retrospect.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at the other periods in time as we go through from then until now, we see the average being probably around 6%. Now, that\u2019s really important because when you look at today\u2019s decline in the markets that have happened recently, we\u2019re at probably 4.5% or 5%, let\u2019s say, and people are wondering \u201cOkay, how long is this going to keep going? Are prices going to start going up?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s easy for us to get stuck in a mentality that this will go on forever. You read these newspaper reports and the sky is falling and it\u2019s a bloodbath. But the reality is we\u2019re probably reaching an average situation that the declines have reached in most other periods of time, and I expect to see some natural price growth coming back into the market.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re in winter now; maybe that will happen in spring. We don\u2019t know what we\u2019ll happen, we can just look at this data and say \u201cOkay, what\u2019s been the performance over time?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. The good news is that unemployment figures are quite good, inflation is quite good, interest rates are at record lows, and I think reflecting back to the last time the property market had a major drop was about 30 years ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>That\u2019s right. And I highlighted in this article, there are a lot of negatives that you can play on out there &#8211; affordability, oversupply, etc. But this is Australia\u2019s 27<sup>th<\/sup> recession-free year. Unemployment back in the recession in 1992 was around 10.7%; now it\u2019s at 5.5%. We have low inflation, we have record low interest rates.<\/p>\n<p>And what\u2019s more, the banks are assessing us at around 7.25% before they even give us a loan in order to make sure that the economy is resilient enough when those rates do rise \u2013 and they will \u2013 to be able to afford it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>On balance, everything does look quite good. It\u2019s not boom time, but it\u2019s certainly not disaster time, either.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re going to put those two graphs that Josh has mentioned into the commentary below here. They come to us with the compliments of CoreLogic, and we thank them for allowing us to use them as well.<\/p>\n<p>Josh, it\u2019s always great talking to you, mate. Thank you so much for your time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Josh:\u00a0 <\/strong>My pleasure, Kevin. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<h2>One third of Aussie are willing to co-share &#8211;\u00a0David Dawson<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>With housing affordability the way it is around Australia, no doubt people are looking at creative ways to get into the market. We\u2019ve talked about that in the show in the past in terms of co-ownership, so I was interested to see the other day that there is now a dedicated website called Kohab that helps people do exactly this, share the cost of purchasing a property with other people. Joining me now is one of the co-founders of Kohab, David Dawson who is also the CEO.<\/p>\n<p>David, thank you very much for your time. Interesting concept, this. Certainly not new, but it does actually bring with it a few areas that we need to be aware of before we jump into this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Co-ownership has been around, I think, for 260 years since tenants in common. So, it\u2019s certainly not new, but more people are taking advantage of buying together, because as you said from the outset, affordability is beyond most people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>So, tenants in common, explain how that works.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Tenants in common is one of the two traditional ways in which people in Australia will buy property \u2013 either that or joint tenants, traditionally. Tenants in common basically allows two, three, or four parties to buy together and essentially own a portion of an asset if they\u2019d like.<\/p>\n<p>So, couples, married couples, friends, it doesn\u2019t really matter. Buying as tenants in common will own the asset in common as opposed to owning, and perhaps on their passing, joint tenancy goes straight to the next of kin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>And also, tenants in common were able to split the ownership in certain percentages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, you can split it in any way you want. So, your property, the property portfolio identifier number basically just has a percentage following it once it\u2019s registered with the land titles office based on the percentage of ownership. You need to make sure that you do do that, though.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>One of the big benefits of this, of course, is deposit. Putting together a deposit is one of the hardest things. How do the banks look upon coownership? Are they fairly relaxed about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>43% I think is the latest number of tenants in common contracts that have more than one person on the title. So, they\u2019re very used to looking at it. I think it comes down to making sure that when you do get a loan, you get a loan that ideally is only assessed on your ability to service your portion of the debt as opposed to your ability to service the whole debt, which is why structuring it the right way allows you to have a smaller deposit if you\u2019re buying with someone else and then only be accountable for your portion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>If you had three co-owners in a property, it\u2019s likely you\u2019re probably going to have three different lenders, or do they normally go to the one lender?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s easier to go to the one lender. It can be done, again, because essentially, the asset is split three ways, but the reality is banks don\u2019t really like it, so it\u2019s probably easier to go to the one lender.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. I guess getting into this, the agreement that you would have upfront is very important. Many times, I\u2019ve seen friendships come unstuck, even relationships come unstuck over the decisions that need to be made around property. So, setting that agreement in place is absolutely critical, I\u2019d imagine, David.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, the first thing that we recommend before anyone buys anything, before they even start looking, is to really understand your expectations and the expectations of your co-buyer or co-buyers and really be clear on what that is. Because as you said, it\u2019s a big purchase, and unless you\u2019re clear and flexible and upfront about what you\u2019re looking for, then it can end badly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s a great way to turn a friend into an enemy by not getting your agreement straight. And as part of the agreement, having an exit plan or a strategy that you talk about upfront in the event that someone wants to sell?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. Again, as before, tenants in common, co-ownership has been around for centuries, but the reality is I would treat it as a business partnership as much as a home or an investment purchase. So, being clear on what happens if one person wants to leave the group, how that\u2019s funded, how the other people buy in, or is there a sunset clause in there?<\/p>\n<p>Co-ownership doesn\u2019t have to be a forever thing, it can have a sunset clause of whatever period you want that basically says \u201cRight, this is going to get me on the ladder, but at a certain point in time we\u2019re going to all agree to sell the asset.\u201d And that might be one person buying the other out, or it might be putting it on the open market for full sale.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, co-ownership, of course, brings with it the sharing of all of the costs, and that agreement would come into play if someone doesn\u2019t meet their own costs. The other people have the option to buy them out, David.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s correct. The co-ownership agreement that we have on our site \u2013 which is kohab.com \u2013 basically is a master document which then once downloaded and reviewed, you can strike out the parts that don\u2019t relate to your relationship or add others in there, but it\u2019s a pretty comprehensive agreement and a good place to start.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I\u2019ve checked the website out. There\u2019s a lot of really good information in there, lots of tools to help you do this. As David just said, the agreement is there, all the information about even making it easier to get a loan and get the insurances that you need. The website is called Kohab.com.au. David Dawson has been my guest.<\/p>\n<p>David, thank you very much for your time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:\u00a0 <\/strong>Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.<\/p>\n<h2>A GST \u2018loop-hole\u2019 revealed &#8211;\u00a0Ian Rodrigues<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>We\u2019re going to answer a question now about GST and development. We received an e-mail, and the gentleman doesn\u2019t want us to mention his name, and that\u2019s fine; we\u2019re happy to do that, so we\u2019ll just take it as noted. The person joining me to answer this question is Ian Rodrigues. Ian is pulled up on the side of the road somewhere. Ian is from Bishop Collins.<\/p>\n<p>Good day, mate. How are you doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Great, Kevin. Good to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re traveling somewhere in the world, but anyway, I\u2019ll just quickly read through this e-mail. This person writes \u201cOur intention was to buy land, build townhouses, and sell for profit. Sales have been slow. We built the townhouses in 2013 and claimed the GST on the build. We have sold a couple of the townhouses and paid the GST on the sales. We have some townhouses left to sell and have not paid the GST claimed back yet on the townhouses that we still hold. These have been rented continuously since 2013 up until now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>There are three questions for you, Ian, and I\u2019ll give you the first one: \u201cWhen or do we need to pay back the GST claimed?\u201d Do you want me to give you all three questions firstly and then we\u2019ll go back and answer them? Is that the best way?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Let\u2019s get them all in, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Okay. The second question was \u201cDo we still need to pay GST on the sales since they are now more then five years old?\u201d And the third question: \u201cIf we keep holding them, can we claim the Div 40 depreciation on these considering we haven\u2019t paid back the GST?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Okay, first question: \u201cWhen or do we need to pay back the GST claimed?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Really, to understand what\u2019s going on here, GST has been around a while, but just to recap some of the very basic points, GST is built residential property, and residential property of itself is not GST-able, so it\u2019s not a taxable supply. So, when you buy an existing house, it\u2019s not a taxable supply, so GST doesn\u2019t apply as a simple rule.<\/p>\n<p>But GST applies to new residential property. So, if you\u2019re building new residential property, as our questioner has said, he\u2019s claimed back the GST, and of course, when he sells new residential property, he has a taxable supply and he pays the GST.<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s happened to our gentleman here is he\u2019s in that in-between phase. He set out with the intention of building, claiming GST, selling, paying GST, and now he\u2019s ended up keeping some of them, presumably because of market conditions. He hasn\u2019t been able to sell them so he rented them.<\/p>\n<p>So, he has to deal with a GST adjustment event. At some point, he either needs to pay back the GST he claimed on those properties, on building them, and retain them as residential property. So, he needs to get advice from his accountant as to when that\u2019s appropriate as to his intention has changed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>So, there\u2019s no specified timeframe on that one?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a timeframe, Kevin; it\u2019s more about the intention of the person. So, if you no longer intend to sell them, then really\u2026 If he did the same deal with the intention of never selling them and buying them to rent, he should never have claimed the GST.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Okay. From what I can read here, it clearly is an indication that he does still want to sell them even though he\u2019s got them rented.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Correct. So, that\u2019s okay; his intention is still to sell them at some point, either rented or vacant.<\/p>\n<p>Now, an opportunity that arises with the way the GST legislation works is that once you\u2019ve rented a residential property for five years, it\u2019s no longer considered new residential premises, which means that at the end of five years\u2026 And you have to get your dates right here; it\u2019s very specific about when these dates apply from. From when it\u2019s first available for rent, I believe, is the correct date.<\/p>\n<p>If he then sells it after that period, then his obligation to pay GST on the sale price has disappeared.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Okay, that probably answers his second question, doesn\u2019t it? \u201cDo we still need to pay GST on the sale since they\u2019re five years old?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>But to be clear, he does have to adjust the GST that he already claimed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>So, he certainly doesn\u2019t have a GST on the profit, on the value added, which when you think about it, on something that cost you $500,000 excluding GST and you\u2019re selling for $800,000 including GST, it could be around $30,000 of GST net that he\u2019s better off.<\/p>\n<p>Multiply that by five townhouses or whatever you\u2019re working on, and selling it a month or two the wrong side of that date could be a major problem. So, getting advice here about how these rules work is absolutely critical.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Third question \u2013 I don\u2019t know if it still applies. \u201cIf we keep holding them, can we claim the Div 40 depreciation on these?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Again, if he\u2019s built these properties and now earning income, I believe, yes, he should absolutely be claiming it. It gets really complicated for him here, because you\u2019re entitled to claim these things, but when you sell it, you\u2019re going to need to determine are you selling it for a capital gain? Has your purpose changed, or is it still an income account?<\/p>\n<p>GST is one set of issues, Kevin. Claiming new construction allowance is pretty straightforward, but how he treats the profit on these sales is a major issue. Is it trading stock, is it for pure profit, or was it for capital gains?<\/p>\n<p>This is where people need to get really good advice from their accountants, because the day one that you claim back GST, you really said \u201cI\u2019m setting out to make an income profit here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. It\u2019s all about the intent, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Right at the beginning. So, even if it changes along the way, you now need to pay back the GST that you claimed and say \u201cMy intention has changed; it\u2019s now capital.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, excellent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>So, he has three sets of issues to deal with, and the fourth issue, of course, is what makes sense in the marketplace as a commercial transaction \u2013 \u201cShould I be holding? Should I be selling?\u201d \u2013 which is the most important decision. But him getting his three-way tax obligations right can add significant value or cost him a lot of money in tax.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Thank you very much, Ian. I appreciate you pulling up on the side of the road to talk to us and for answering that question as well. Thanks for your time, mate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian:\u00a0 <\/strong>Our pleasure. Thanks. Bye.<\/p>\n<h2>Our annual property update &#8211;\u00a0Simon Pressley<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>At the end of the financial year as we kick into another financial year midway through this year, let\u2019s have a look around Australia at what\u2019s happening with the property markets? Our midyear market wrap with Simon Pressley from Propertyology.<\/p>\n<p>Good day, Simon. How are you doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, really well, Kevin. The year is flying past.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, isn\u2019t it ever? Halfway through the year already. Incredible.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s have a quick look around Australia. Do you want to pick, say, Sydney to start with?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. Over the last 12 months, it was just released in the last couple of days by CoreLogic, the dwelling value in greater Sydney has declined by 4.5%. I don\u2019t think there would be too many people who would be greatly surprised by that. Whilst none of us like to see property markets declining, this sort of thing has probably been on the horizon for a couple of years in our big city.<\/p>\n<p>There are parts of Sydney that have seen greater than that 4.5%, more between 7% and 8% where a combination of affordability or too much supply has had a bigger impact than the broader city.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s hardly a crash. Would you call it more a correction?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>You could call it a correction. I\u2019m not totally easy with that word. It\u2019s probably just more of a reflection of those who could afford to buy in Sydney had done so well before 2018, and there are very few buyers in Sydney who either can afford it or have the confidence to do so. That\u2019s probably more of a reflection of what it is. But that\u2019s creating some opportunities elsewhere.<\/p>\n<p>Roughly 20,000 people left Sydney last year and migrated somewhere else, I\u2019d suggest largely because of affordability. To date, Queensland has been the biggest beneficiary of that, but that doesn\u2019t necessarily mean all of Brisbane. A large chunk of those 20,000 people leaving Sydney are seeking housing affordability also, which increases demand in places like South East Queensland.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. We\u2019ll deal with the regional markets separately, I think. Let\u2019s take Brisbane as an example. South East Queensland, you\u2019ve got the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast as well. What\u2019s your view on that in terms of what\u2019s been going on, and where do you see it headed in the future?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, Brisbane\u2026 Most of the capital cities, actually, have had that 1% to 3% price growth over the last 12 months, which isn\u2019t spectacular but is still heading in the right direction.<\/p>\n<p>I think what investors need to be mindful of is each capital city has its own unique cycle. Sydney, Melbourne, and Canberra, their growth cycles are finished. Canberra hasn\u2019t declined but its growth cycle is certainly over, and Melbourne has started to decline. Hobart is well and truly in the middle of its cycle; it\u2019s been well publicized how well that market has done. But the other cities, Kevin, are yet to commence their growth cycle.<\/p>\n<p>Perth appears to be stabilizing. Darwin has some horrendous problems there. We might get back on the show and talk about that at a later date, but it\u2019s in all sorts of trouble. Adelaide and Brisbane, their growth cycle hasn\u2019t commenced. I\u2019d love to say that those two are going to boom. I don\u2019t feel that way. But the positive thing is the growth cycles are ahead of us. It\u2019s not doom and gloom everywhere.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re talking there about Brisbane. What about Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast while we\u2019re staying in South East Queensland?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Both Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast have actually performed better over the last four or five years than Queensland\u2019s capital city, and that\u2019s a direct reflection of their economy. There have been more infrastructure projects on both coasts. Part of the Gold Coast infrastructure projects have been related to the Commonwealth Games. There are no Commonwealth Games in the Sunshine Coast, but there just are more projects and it\u2019s probably done a little bit more to promote its tourism than what Brisbane has.<\/p>\n<p>I think that both the Coasts, their outlook is still healthy without being spectacular. I don\u2019t foresee a boom on the horizon anywhere in South East Queensland. That\u2019s not to say it doesn\u2019t have really good fundamentals; a boom could happen, but booms happen for a reason, and the reasons that cause a boom aren\u2019t evident at the moment.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>The Melbourne market, we\u2019ll skip down there. That\u2019s still a very healthy market and predicted to be the biggest market in Australia.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>It is definitely a really big market. We\u2019ve now had, however, seven consecutive months of price declines in Melbourne. They\u2019re mild declines, so again, we\u2019re not talking crash, it\u2019s not doom and gloom, but it\u2019s running out of steam.<\/p>\n<p>And I think it\u2019s important for someone looking to invest to recognize that when a growth cycle ends, it\u2019s usually several years before the next growth cycle starts. So, if you\u2019re an investor, always appreciate that Australia is a massive country, it\u2019s always a good time to invest; the question is not when but where. And it\u2019s never a good time, I feel, to invest in a market when a growth cycle has just finished, because you could be sitting on an asset that remains flat for many years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>You mentioned Darwin \u2013 and that is subject for another conversation, I guess \u2013 and Perth. It\u2019s good to see Perth starting to emerge.<\/p>\n<p>What about Adelaide? How do you feel about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Look, Adelaide has always been that quiet market that never gets a lot of attention but it just chugs along and consistently does okay, doesn\u2019t it? I can\u2019t recall the last time Adelaide had a significant period of property price declines, and you have to go back a long way when Adelaide had a really strong couple of years as well. But it\u2019s a very stable market.<\/p>\n<p>We know that earlier this year, there was a change of government. I think it was 15 or 16 years or something that south Australia had the one state government. So, Adelaide is a \u201cwatch\u201d for us. We have no reason that its continued mild price growth won\u2019t continue for some time. Whether that actually gains pace, a lot is going to depend on some initiatives of the new state government.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>What about some of the regions? I know you and I have spoken many times about how strong some of those regional markets are when you compare them with, say, the cap city markets. And it was an interesting conversation you and I had in a recent video where you looked at greater Sydney compared to, say, Ararat in Victoria.<\/p>\n<p>Some of those regional areas are really quite healthy in terms of growth and return.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely, there are. The regions will never get the positive attention that they deserve. Unfortunately, the only time the broader property media tend to talk about a regional market is when it has performed poorly. But there are a lot more city councils in regional Australia than there are in capital city markets.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re looking to invest in 2018 or 2019, I\u2019d suggest you take your focus away from all eight capital cities and start to understand the fundamentals of each of the regional markets. That doesn\u2019t mean that every regional market is a good one, but it never means that every capital city is a good one either, does it, Kevin?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>No, it doesn\u2019t. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Learn the fundamentals. The affordability is the most exciting thing. Regional markets have always been affordable, so just picking it because it\u2019s affordable doesn\u2019t necessarily mean it\u2019s a good decision. But develop an understanding of the individual economic profile of all those regional locations, and then you\u2019ll get a greater appreciation of the wonderful opportunities.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve been active in a number of regional markets, helping our investors for a good few years now. We anticipated that there will be a period of time when capital cities broadly will be underwhelming, and we\u2019re here now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Let\u2019s move away from the markets and talk about some of the influences on the market. APRA has played a big part in that, and the economy as well, Simon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>It has, and I\u2019m not going to shy away from it; I\u2019ve become increasingly angry with APRA. I know it\u2019s well intended. It\u2019s a reaction to some concerns that legislators had about Australia\u2019s most expensive market and the big mortgages in Sydney. So, it was well intended but poorly executed. The changes affect the whole of Australia at a time when large parts of Australia actually needed a bit of a hand up. Instead, they got a big piece of four-by-two whacked around the ears.<\/p>\n<p>If people around Australia other than Sydney and Melbourne have been saying for a few years \u201cWhere\u2019s my growth? When are we going to get it?\u201d well, the APRA intervention certainly did nothing to help that.<\/p>\n<p>Well intended, but at the end of the day, money makes the world go around. Whether it\u2019s the salaries that we earn or the money that we borrow, one way or the other, it still gets spent, and it\u2019s that spending that creates confidence, creates jobs, creates wage growth. So, when you really tighten credit, the wage growth that we want, it\u2019ll have the opposite effect in my opinion.<\/p>\n<p>Investors need to be aware banks are still approving loans, though. They are profit-making machines, the biggest profit-making machines of all companies on the ASX and will always be that way. So, they want to lend money.<\/p>\n<p>It just means if you are motivated and proactive about your financial future and you want to invest, instead of giving five or six bits of paper, you might need to give 15 or 16 bits of paper. But if you\u2019re creditworthy, you will be approved.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. Simon, a very interesting wrap there on the national property market. The takeaway for me was a comment you made earlier in this interview about the opportunities to invest in property. It\u2019s not so much when but actually where you should be investing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. Australia is an extremely diverse country. There are always opportunities. The world\u2019s most famous investor Warren Buffet has many good quotes. One of them is \u201cA time to be fearful is when everyone else is greedy, and the time to be greedy is when everyone else is fearful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, here and now when there\u2019s a lot of doom and gloom in the property media \u2013 that\u2019s mostly on the back of what\u2019s happening in Sydney and Melbourne \u2013 it\u2019s actually the best time to be investing. It\u2019s not the timing; it\u2019s the location. Get that right and take advantage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, a great message. Thank you. Simon Pressley from Propertyology. Thanks again for your time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Simon:\u00a0 <\/strong>Thanks, Kevin.<\/p>\n<h2>Business guru impacts a property business &#8211;\u00a0Mark Bouris<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>My next guest is Mark Bouris. You may recall that Mark was the host of <em>Celebrity Apprentice Australia<\/em>, also founded Wizard Home Loans, and is the executive chairman now of Yellow Brick Road. More recently, we\u2019ve seen him on Channel 7\u2019s news series <em>The Mentor<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Now, when the first program went to air, it featured a struggling family business on the north side of Brisbane, which was then called Ubiquitous Realty. And in the promo for that show, which was the first in the series, as I said, Mark Bouris actually said that maybe it could be the worst real estate agency in Australia. Mark joins me to talk about that.<\/p>\n<p>Good day, Mark. How are you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>Good morning. I\u2019m good, thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>That was a bit cruel, I thought. Was it justified?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, it was at the time when I first looked at the iPad. On my iPad, I looked at their promo stuff. I was gobsmacked. I couldn\u2019t believe it. To some extent, when I looked at their figures, I thought \u201cMy god, these guys are hopeless.\u201d But that wasn\u2019t the case once I got to know them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Isn\u2019t it funny that that is the case? I think in talking to Stephanie Wimpenny, who was the person most used in the series, such a lovely young person, but the reason they came up with the name Ubiquitous is a story in itself, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>I think that\u2019s what floored me in the beginning, was the name. They heard the word spoken on one of the breakfast shows in the morning and they said \u201cWell, that name sounds intelligent, why don\u2019t I look it up and see what it means?\u201d and then it means everywhere or in all places, and they decided that was a good name for them. That was my whole point.<\/p>\n<p>When I first said this could be the worst real estate in Australia, it was because I looked at the promo stuff and there was Stephanie channeling Steve Irwin or Bindi Irwin, and I thought \u201cWell, that\u2019s crazy.\u201d And then I saw the name Ubiquitous<em>,<\/em> and I thought \u201cOh my god, what sort of name is that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But once I got to meet them \u2013 and I got to meet Sharon and Eric and Kurtis and Stephanie as well \u2013 I started to get a good feeling about them and I thought \u201cI can work with them, and I can turn them around,\u201d which is what I hope I\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. The mere fact that you had to look up the name probably tells you a lot about why you shouldn\u2019t use it. It\u2019s even a difficult name to spell.<\/p>\n<p>But moving off that now, what did you find when you started to work with them? Was there anything out of the series that is demonstrating a common strand with these businesses that are struggling, Mark?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>There\u2019s one common strand, and that\u2019s structure. I think that combines with the importance of how a family interacts, so if it\u2019s a family business, you need to have more structure than you ordinarily would have, because what happens is \u2013 particularly in their case \u2013 they operate out of home. So, you never know when you\u2019re doing business and you never know when you\u2019re being family. And they\u2019re totally different dynamics, so you need to have a structure.<\/p>\n<p>In that episode, one of the things I got them to do was actually do a video of themselves training themselves. And what I found out is they don\u2019t have any idea about how to train, so what I\u2019ve been able to do is organize training for them.<\/p>\n<p>They need structure in their business about how they approach a customer, a client, someone they\u2019re trying to list \u2013 how they approach them, how they talk with them, how they deal with them and then how when they open up the place for inspection, what they say on the day. And now they\u2019re doing very well. They are very structured.<\/p>\n<p>And by the way, Stephanie is a super bright young girl and really willing to learn. I quite enjoyed being with them, and I still talk to them every couple of weeks now by e-mail. And they still come back to me and ask questions and tell me how they\u2019re going. They\u2019re doing very well at the moment, too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s a tremendous thing that you do in the series <em>The Mentor<\/em> itself, but I know that apart from the series, you do a lot of mentoring that we never get to hear about. What sparked the interest in this for you, Mark? Did it come from an early age?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>Not really so much in terms of mentoring, but one of the things I know about small business in Australia\u2026 I\u2019ve had lots of small businesses, some successful, some weren\u2019t, some became really big businesses, some just stayed small businesses. And I know the struggle.<\/p>\n<p>I thought \u201cI\u2019ve got some time, what I\u2019d like to do is actually try and pay it forward.\u201d Because lots of people helped me in the past. In my view, the difference between my business that\u2019s been successful, and other people like the Wimpennies or Stephanie and her family, the Lisches, not being as successful as my business was is because I had someone always to point me in the right direction. Let\u2019s call it a mentor for want of a better word.<\/p>\n<p>So, I thought \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to start picking people out and I\u2019m going to start mentoring them.\u201d That\u2019s what I did, and that was the basis of the show. I thought it would make a good television show. There are lots of Australians with small businesses in this country, and they\u2019re all looking for someone to give them a hand.<\/p>\n<p>I thought \u201cHow can I amplify my advice, scale it up? I can\u2019t be doing one-on-ones all the time, I don\u2019t have time for it.\u201d And I thought the only way to do it is to have a TV show, and the TV show was a way of amplifying or scaling up the problems and scaling up the solutions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>I guess there\u2019d also be a lot of learning in it for you as well, wouldn\u2019t there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>Every single time I go into a business and I see things that are really obvious, I give myself a tap on the shoulder, and sometimes an upper cut, and make sure I take that back to my own business and say \u201cOkay, what are the fundamentals? Can we go back to the beginning?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Because my businesses are pretty mature, but equally, I still have to keep going back every three or four months to the fundamentals to make sure that I\u2019m doing the very things that I\u2019m advocating to others. And you know what? In big businesses, we have as many problems as small businesses. Our fundamentals slip away very quickly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Mark, it\u2019s great talking to you. Thank you so much for giving us your time, and full marks to you for what you do with <em>The Mentor<\/em>. I think it\u2019s a great series, and I know that Stephanie and her family are really reveling in that all the time.<\/p>\n<p>You mentioned there about the training that you were able to organize for them is with another real estate agency almost in their area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>Matt Lancashire, and Matt is one of the leading real estate sales guys in Queensland and in particular in Brisbane. Matt has been fantastic, and Matt has been giving me reports as to how Stephanie and Sharon are going. Particularly Stephanie has not missed a session, not one week. And he said she continually parlays back to him all the time about what she\u2019s learning and keeps asking questions.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m very impressed, and I\u2019m actually very thankful for him for doing that for them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>We all are. Mark, thank you so much for your time. It\u2019s great talking to you. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mark:\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re welcome. And go Moreton Bay Realty.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Highlights from this week: One third of Aussie are willing to co-share A GST \u2018loop-hole\u2019 revealed Our annual property update \u201cAvoid panic\u201d says one expert Business guru impacts a property business Transcript: \u201cAvoid panic\u201d says one expert &#8211;\u00a0Josh Masters Kevin:\u00a0 There\u2019s always mixed reporting about&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692473,"featured_media":21839,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-21838","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - 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