{"id":20089,"date":"2018-02-02T01:00:06","date_gmt":"2018-02-01T14:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=20089"},"modified":"2018-02-02T01:00:06","modified_gmt":"2018-02-01T14:00:06","slug":"flipping-as-a-strategy-melbourne-rents-on-the-rise-beware-of-the-free-cheese","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/flipping-as-a-strategy-melbourne-rents-on-the-rise-beware-of-the-free-cheese\/","title":{"rendered":"Flipping as a strategy + Melbourne rents on the rise + Beware of the \u2018free cheese\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong><em><u>Highlights from this week: <\/u><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>How artificial intelligence will impact property<\/li>\n<li>The rate of flipping has dropped<\/li>\n<li>Don\u2019t get tempted to take the bait<\/li>\n<li>Rents rise through competition<\/li>\n<li>Where flipping is most profitable<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Transcripts:<\/strong><\/p>\n<h2>Flipping is &#8216;no flop&#8217; for 90% of investors &#8211;\u00a0Cameron Kusher<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things that always fascinates me is about the renovation market. People are constantly wondering if this is the time to flip. \u201cIf I were to do a renovation now, flip it over, would I make some money? How long would I have to hold onto it for?\u201d<br \/>\nI\u2019m interested to read a report from CoreLogic, which is the first time they\u2019ve produced the Property Flipping Report. Joining me to talk about that, Cameron Kusher.<br \/>\nProbably like me, Cameron, you get asked this question quite often.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do. Obviously, people want to know how many people are flipping their properties and whether or not they\u2019re actually making a profit on that. This report goes to shed some light on whether they are making a profit and how many are flipping.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are they making a profit? That\u2019s the first question.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Generally, they are. Nationally, over the 12 months to June of last year, 89.1% of people who flipped their property in less than 12 months sold for a profit, and 89.9% of people who flipped it between one and two years made a profit. Overwhelmingly, the majority of the people who are flipping are making a profit.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What percentage of sales \u2013 do you know \u2013 overall would constitute flipping?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 What we did is we defined flipping in two ways: less than one year and then one to two years. The reason we did that is because if you\u2019re an investor and you\u2019re reselling in less than one year, obviously, you have to pay the full rate of capital gains tax. Our theory was that fewer people would flip in less than one year. Then we looked at one to two years, which, again, if you\u2019re an investor, you get a halving of that capital gains tax.<br \/>\nWhat we found is 1.3% of all sales over the year were flipped within a year and 5.7% were flipped within one to two years.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you been able to work out how that compares with previous years, Cameron?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have. Historically, we look back, so if we go back five years ago, 5.1% of properties were flipped within 12 months, 1% were flipped within one to two years. So, it\u2019s a little bit higher than both of those figures.<br \/>\nBut if we go all the way back to 2002, for example, at the peak of the housing boom in Sydney and Melbourne at the turn of the century, 11.3% of all properties were being flipped within one to two years, 3.4% were being flipped in less than a year. Flipping has actually reduced quite substantially compared to where it was at the peak of the market.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026Comparing it back that far. But is it still declining?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not still declining; it\u2019s creeping up a little bit. But I think, obviously now, the next couple of years will be interesting because we are seeing the Sydney and Melbourne housing markets starting to slow down. Sydney is obviously seeing some value falls. And that\u2019s where the prevalence of flipping has actually been the greatest, in Sydney and Melbourne.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about areas around Australia? Is it more prominent in some areas than others?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 It certainly is. In terms of flipping, as I said, Sydney and Melbourne are where you tend to find most flipping going on. Interestingly, though, it\u2019s more inclined to be one to two years than less than one year. I think that is probably reflective of a lot of investment that has gone on in those two cities.<br \/>\nYou also have a reasonably high amount of flipping in less than a year in Darwin. That could be potentially people getting themselves into a little bit of trouble. Values are falling in that market.<br \/>\nThe areas where we\u2019re not seeing a lot of flipping: Perth and regional Western Australia as well as the regional Northern Territories. I think, again, fairly weak markets so people aren\u2019t buying and selling property with the expectation that they\u2019re going to sell at a profit in a short period of time.<br \/>\nI think you can see the difference. The stronger markets are more inclined to see flipping; the weaker markets are less inclined to see flipping.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about the regions compared to the cap cities?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 In terms of the combined capital cities, 1.2% of properties are flipped in less than a year, 5.7% within one to two years. Not that different in regional Australia, 1.4% of properties are flipped within less than a year, 5.8% within one to two years, so there\u2019s actually slightly more flipping taking place in the regional parts of the country.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s have a quick look around the states. What about in New South Wales? Give me a summary on that state in terms of flipping.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 In terms of New South Wales, if we look at Sydney versus regional New South Wales, 1.5% of properties in Sydney are flipped after a year, 6.8% within one to two years, and then in regional New South Wales, 1.5% are flipped in less than a year and 6% within one to two years. You can see that flipping is fairly similar in that \u201cless than one year\u201d category, but slightly higher in one to two years in Sydney than it is outside of Sydney.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about Victoria?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 In Victoria, again, Melbourne, you have 1.3% flipped in less than a year, 6.4% flipped one to two years, regional Victoria, 1.1% flipped in less than a year, 4.7% one to two years. Flipping is certainly a lot more prevalent in Melbourne than it is outside of Melbourne.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I read somewhere, too, the Mornington Peninsula is one of the most profitable regions for flipping.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 It certainly is. Very successful down in that Mornington Peninsula area when people do flip.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about Queensland? What\u2019s happening there?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 In Queensland, as you\u2019d expect, not a huge amount of flipping going on. 1.1% flipped in less than a year in Brisbane, 5.4% one to two years. And then in regional Queensland, flipping is actually more prevalent, 1.6% of properties are flipped in less than 12 months, 6.6% are flipped in one to two years.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mentioned earlier about Western Australia and how it\u2019s a bit difficult there. Just give me a summary on WA.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Very low levels of flipping taking place in WA. 0.8% in Perth are flipped in less than a year, 3.2% flipped one to two years. And then in regional WA, it\u2019s a very similar story: 0.8% flipped in less than a year and 3.1% were flipped within one to two years. You don\u2019t see a lot of flipping behavior taking place in WA.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about, finally, South Australia and Northern Territory?<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 In South Australia, not a huge market for flipping: 1.1% of properties were flipped in less than a year both in Adelaide and regional South Australia. Then between one to two years, you have 4.2% in Adelaide and 3.9% in South Australia.<br \/>\nThen if we go to the Northern Territory, again, not a huge amount of flipping taking place: 1.9% of Darwin properties flipped in less than a year and 4.1% flipped within one to two years. Then in regional Northern Territory, only 0.6% of properties were flipped in less than a year and 4.7% flipped in one to two years.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a very interesting market, flipping, because it\u2019s so easy to over-capitalize, particularly with inexperienced renovators. So, a pretty good insight there into what to do if you\u2019re looking at flipping. It\u2019s a great report reflecting that nine in ten Australian properties are flipped for a profit. That\u2019s according to CoreLogic. And joining me to talk about that was Cameron Kusher.<br \/>\nCameron, thanks for your time.<br \/>\n<strong>Cameron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having me, Kevin.<\/p>\n<h2>Sydney unit rental prices ease &#8211;\u00a0Dr Nicola Powell<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>A rental price report out from Domain reflects the fact that Australia\u2019s capital city markets are operating on certainly different property cycles. We will have a look at each of the capital cities, but we\u2019ll focus very much on Queensland and Brisbane. Joining me to talk about this is Domain\u2019s data scientist, Dr. Nicola Powell.<br \/>\nDr. Powell, thank you very much for your time.<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>Hello. Thanks for having me.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>That\u2019s a pleasure. We saw a little bit of movement in some of them. The Sydney market\u2019s rental figure surprisingly came back. What do you put that down to?<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I know. The unit rental prices actually declined 0.9%. For tenants out there, that means a $5 saving on that median weekly rent. There are a couple of things that I think are probably starting to drive this change. You have to remember that house price rents and unit rents were the same in Sydney. They were both at $550 in the previous quarter, so we have seen it ease a little bit in the unit market.<br \/>\nWhat we are seeing in Sydney is those building completions are coming to a peak, and you have to think a lot of those would have been sold off the plan to investors throughout that peak time of that investor activity. So, I think we\u2019re probably seeing some of those starting to come on to that rental market, which is helping to increase the supply in certain areas. I think that\u2019s really what\u2019s driven this ease in price. It\u2019s great for tenants out there because it does give them a little bit more choice in the market.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, we saw a little bit of growth for investors in Melbourne, and we certainly saw a bit of growth out of Adelaide, as well. That surprised me just a little bit, but it\u2019s good news.<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes. There was a rental growth in houses in Adelaide over the quarter and over the year. Units were stable. What\u2019s happened in the housing market, though, is we\u2019ve had a short-term drop in stock in that market, and I think that\u2019s really put a bit of a short-term pressure on that market.<br \/>\nI\u2019m not sure if that growth will be there. Adelaide is a very steady market. It\u2019s been steady as you go in both the sales and rental market, and I really think that is going to continue.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>And good growth out of Canberra.<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>Amazing growth out of Canberra. Canberra has a very transient nature in terms of its population. What it\u2019s actually experienced is an increase in the interstate migration, which a couple of years ago was in the negative; they were losing more people to other states and territories due to those public-sector cutbacks. But that has turned around and it\u2019s really regenerated the housing market in Canberra, and we are seeing rents increase.<br \/>\nFor Canberra, it\u2019s really going into that peak rental period, which is also putting pressure on the demand. We have all the graduate jobs starting and universities starting, as well. But for investors in Canberra, the yields are pretty good, as well. Units in Canberra are providing investors with the strongest yields compared to all of our major capital cities.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Domain data scientist Dr. Nicola Powell is with me.<br \/>\nGreat news out of Hobart. That\u2019s an amazing market, and so many people are predicting that it\u2019s going to continue to grow. Investors will be very happy about their returns there.<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>They certainly will. Hobart provided the best growth yields for investors for houses. But in terms of the level of growth that tenants are seeing, we\u2019re experiencing hefty quarter-on-quarter increases for both houses and units.<br \/>\nAnd Hobart was the only city to record double-digit annual growth in their rents. It\u2019s a tightening market, it\u2019s a very competitive market, and I think moving forwards, tenants really need to prepare themselves that higher rents are probably going to continue into this year.<br \/>\nWe\u2019re starting to see a little bit of a response in terms of development approvals; they are starting to increase. But as with any developments, whether it\u2019s a house or a unit development, they take time to impact the market. So, I think it\u2019s going to have little impact this year for Hobart.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>And the Brisbane housing market rental returns are quite stable, but a bit of a drop in units. What do you put that down to?<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>We know there have been huge amounts of developments in units in Brisbane, and that\u2019s really just reflective of the fact that they\u2019re still impacting the year-on-year growth in rent. It\u2019s really given investors in Brisbane little reason to raise their rents, because they have been impacted by this high level of development in Brisbane.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Dr. Powell, thank you very much for your time. Dr. Nicola Powell is the Domain data scientist with that report. Thanks for your time.<br \/>\n<strong>Nicola:\u00a0 <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<h2>The only free cheese is in the trap &#8211;\u00a0Brett Warren<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 When we see the market the way it is now \u2013 a lot of pressure on it, a lot of over-supply and stock \u2013 it\u2019s quite normal for developers to start offering incentives \u2013 we won\u2019t call it bait, but that\u2019s pretty much what it is \u2013 to buy. I\u2019ve seen people offering \u201cBuy a unit, you\u2019ll get a car,\u201d or \u201cBuy a unit, you\u2019ll go in the running to win a trip overseas.\u201d Brett Warren from Metropole Properties joins me to talk about this.<br \/>\nBrett, do these work? And I think I know what the answer to this question is going to be. Is that a good enough reason to buy a property?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 The answer is no, but to some people, it does. People think of it as a big bonus. I think the biggest one at the moment, especially for investors, is that incentive to rent back for two years, so they\u2019ll actually pay your rent for the next two years even if your apartment is vacant.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why is that a problem if you\u2019re going to be given a really good return for a couple of years?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 The problem is who\u2019s paying for that return? That\u2019s actually built into the price. Developers don\u2019t give away things for free. They don\u2019t give away cars. They don\u2019t give away trips. They don\u2019t just pay your rent to be nice for the next two years. They actually factor that into the price.<br \/>\nQuite often, in the past, we\u2019d get calls from agents telling us about a property that\u2019s coming up. The client paid $550,000 and it\u2019s only going to be selling for $500,000 or $520,000, so it\u2019s a bargain. And when you go back and look through it, they\u2019ve paid probably 5% to 10% too much for the property, because of those types of things \u2013 the incentives, the rent backs, the trips, the cars, and those types of things as well.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 In the event that you are looking at a unit, you genuinely think it\u2019s a good buy and there is a good rent-back on it, how do you make sure that the rent that\u2019s being offered is not over-inflated or, in fact, it is market?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a good point, too. I\u2019d always get a second opinion. Speak to a reputable agent. Obviously, the sales agents are going to have their rental appraisals that would have been done, but like everything, I\u2019d always get a second opinion on those types of things from an independent third party.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 I guess the bottom line is if you\u2019re looking to make a purchase, make sure it\u2019s on the quality of the property and not what surrounds it \u2013 in other words, not what\u2019s on offer to get you to buy it. I think, generally, if there is something on offer that\u2019s like bait or an incentive, there\u2019s probably a very good reason why that has to be offered.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what I probably tend to agree with too, Kevin. The higher the incentive, probably the more I\u2019d steer clear of the property itself.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Can we just very quickly talk about auction? How do you go about purchasing a property pre-auction? Is that something that\u2019s becoming more common?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it is. Again, it\u2019s about having that communication and understanding with the sales agent of what the seller\u2019s needs are. Sometimes they\u2019re desperate to sell; other times they\u2019re going to see the auction through. A good question to ask is \u201cWould they sell before auction?\u201d Most agents will say yes, but you want to understand their needs for selling and things like that.<br \/>\nA little tip would probably be to do all your due diligence at the start and if you are going to make an offer, do it at the start of a campaign rather than towards the end. If you\u2019re going to make an offer a week out from auction, that\u2019s probably here nor there; they\u2019re probably emotionally committed to the auction.<br \/>\nWhereas if you\u2019re putting all your work together at the start, there have been fewer offers, there\u2019s been less time on the market, and there\u2019s more time until the auction, so they\u2019re probably more open and receptive to actually doing an off-market transaction.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would the offer that you make have to be a premium offer? Because agents will tell sellers that the reason they\u2019re going to auction is the opportunity to get a premium price, so to stop an auction, the seller\u2019s agent will probably tell you that they\u2019ll take an offer but it needs to be a premium offer.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 It does. It needs to be a reasonably solid offer. You probably won\u2019t get a second chance at it. It\u2019s not like you\u2019re going to be able to negotiate too much, if at all.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because just the pure sense that you\u2019re going to negotiate is an indication that they\u2019re actually giving away their reserve, which a good agent wouldn\u2019t let them do.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely. Your offer probably will also have to be under auction conditions or very close to\u2026<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which is cash unconditional.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026Cash unconditional, so you want to do your building and pest. That\u2019s the first thing I\u2019d do. If I liked the property, I was going to bid at auction, and it was four weeks away, I\u2019d be getting a building and pest done immediately. That way, you\u2019ve ruled it in or ruled it out straight away, and then you can actually put an offer forward without having to do that.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because one indication to a seller\u2019s agent that they have bidders is the number of building and pest inspections that are done prior to auction.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely. Also, have there been other offers prior to auction, as well?<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What is the value in asking that, though? Because you\u2019re not going to be able to find out what the offer was.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, but if you were putting an offer together in the last week and there have been four or five other offers, they\u2019re probably not going to take it off the market unless it\u2019s a crazy price. But if you\u2019re doing it at the start of a campaign and if you\u2019ve put a good, solid offer together without all your conditions and things like that, your chance of getting an offer accepted is probably slightly higher.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 So you really have to be buyer-ready, don\u2019t you?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you finance in place, have the building and pest inspection done, and get a reasonably good estimate of what the value of the property is.<br \/>\nDo you find, generally, that most buyers know value or do they need to get a valuation done?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Quite often, valuations are very conservative. Particularly some of the auctions we go to, it\u2019s the last man standing kind of thing \u2013 high disposable income areas, things like that. People tend to pay considerably more than what the property is worth just to get into that area, that school catchment, that kind of suburb, and things like that.<br \/>\nThey have to have an idea of what the value is but also be comfortable with what they\u2019re spending at the end of the day.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Valuations tend to be quite conservative. Why is that?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 The bank is not going to over-value and over-stretch themselves.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 But it\u2019s not a bank; it\u2019s a valuer.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is a valuer, but they report to the bank and things like that, so if it comes in considerably more or less, then the valuer is going to have a few questions to answer.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is it possible to say to a valuer, \u201cYou\u2019re not doing this for a bank; I\u2019m doing this so that I can get a feeling of what the value of this property is because I want to buy it at auction.\u201d Will that valuation be different, do you think, from a bank valuation?<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think so, yes. I think it definitely would. Again, it\u2019s about communicating your needs to the valuer and making them understand what you need this for. I think once they realize that they\u2019re working for you and not the bank, then it would be a different story.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Brett Warren is my guest. Brett, thank you very much for your time.<br \/>\n<strong>Brett:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks a lot, Kevin. Good to be with you.<\/p>\n<h2>AI in property &#8211;\u00a0Nigel Dalton<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>You only need to have seen <em>Star Wars, The Matrix, Westworld<\/em>, or have grown up watching <em>The Jetsons<\/em> to know what artificial intelligence \u2013 or, as it\u2019s sometimes called, AI \u2013 is all about. The latest <em>Black Mirror<\/em> series on Netflix even grapples with voice and AI technology, giving us a scarily realistic glimpse of what society could be like in as little as five years\u2019 time.<br \/>\nSo, where\u2019s all this going? Where is it headed? How is it going to impact buyers and sellers of real estate? Joining me to talk about this is Nigel Dalton who is RealEstate.com.au REA\u2019s Group Chief Inventor.<br \/>\nNigel, that\u2019s a pretty awesome term, Chief Inventor.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s an important term. I have the best job in Australia, that\u2019s for sure. But what we\u2019ve come to realize is that innovation is one thing. That\u2019s understanding customer needs and meeting them. You need to do that on a daily basis to survive today. That\u2019s what most of the people at realestate.com.au do. A few of us work on pure invention: what\u2019s coming in two to five years?<br \/>\nAll we tap into is an amazing antipodean Australian and Kiwi spirit of being able to solve problems with stuff. Can we bring AI to bear on some of the problems in real estate? I hope so. We work on virtual reality and artificial intelligence, those kinds of things, and thinking two to five years out.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>My first experience with virtual reality was actually at REA in Melbourne, I think it was. We went to have a tour of the facility there, and we were given some 3D glasses. I went on a rollercoaster. That was my first experience in virtual reality. It was quite scary, I thought.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>You were a pioneer, because those games were the entry point to that. We talk about these future technologies impacting three things: time, trust, and transparency. What we think virtual reality is good for is saving people time. It\u2019s the one thing you can\u2019t make more of, and it\u2019s an incredible gift you can give to your customers in real estate.<br \/>\nYou\u2019re experienced in that industry. There\u2019s a lot of time wasted. You take a simple thing like a rental open for inspection. We had 200 people turn up to one of those in Sydney late last year, and there were 199 dissatisfied people who lost two hours of their day, probably one hour parking in Sydney, knowing how tough that is nowadays. That\u2019s 400 hours of human time wasted.<br \/>\nIf we can get some of that back for people, whether they\u2019re agents or consumers, we know that\u2019s appreciated. So, that\u2019s where we point our technology.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting to hear you say that, Nigel. We\u2019ve become \u2013 I guess because of the Internet and things like Google \u2013 so intolerant of wasting time. We even ask Google Home \u201cWhat\u2019s the temperature in Washington? What\u2019s the time here? Or what open homes there are this week?\u201d and we want an instant answer.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>Do you know, Australians are among the most impatient people in the world. I saw a study that Uber had done as to which nation was prepared to wait the longest for their Uber before they cancelled or found another opportunity.<br \/>\nWhat do you reckon is the time an Australian is prepared to wait for an Uber?<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>I had an Uber experience recently and I waited ten minutes and then cancelled.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, ten minutes, you\u2019re on the 99<sup>th<\/sup> percentile of tolerance, because two minutes is the average Australian.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh, wow.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>Now, I don\u2019t know about you, I grew up in rural New Zealand, and when you go to a party in a small town, you\u2019d wait two and a half hours for a taxi.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>The technology now is you order an Uber\u2026 We\u2019re talking about Uber, but you can do it with pizza as well, and you can see where your pizza is, where the delivery is.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>And this is really smart use of technology. Uber and Dominos are both pioneers in the world of artificial intelligence, of using mathematical algorithms in a way that gives us more time. And what it is with the pizza thing is transparency.<br \/>\nHow good do you feel knowing that that pizza is only two streets away?<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, well, how frustrating is it when you see them make a wrong turn? Which has happened.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>I know. And we\u2019re a generation that\u2019s now used to that level of transparency, and we expect it in every single transaction we do.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Talking about that, how is voice technology going to be integrated into the property industry? What are we going to see in the future?<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019m old enough to remember back ten years ago when these crazy phones came out with glass screens you had to touch, and we all sat around going \u201cThat\u2019s never going to work. It\u2019s going to get dirty, and nobody wants to touch their screen. They want a keyboard and buttons.\u201d Well, that changed the world. We\u2019re so used to touchscreens. You see children in caf\u00e9s trying to touch the screen on a newspaper and expand the picture out. It doesn\u2019t work.<br \/>\nAnd now we\u2019re in the world of voice. We will remember 2018 as the year we started not touching but talking to our devices.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re at the cutting edge; you have a Google Home at home. Amazon Alexa is about to hit the market with a real bang because Australians love shopping online, and Amazon Alexa is absolutely made for that.<br \/>\nYes, we\u2019ll get used to talking to our devices, and we\u2019ll talk to everything. You\u2019ll talk to your car, you\u2019ll talk to your phone, you\u2019ll talk to your glasses. You\u2019ll certainly talk to that thing about getting a decent recipe for cooking that roast leg of lamb for Australia Day.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>But how is it going to relate to real estate?<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>Very simple. In real estate, we have those hard questions that everyone wants to know. \u201cWho\u2019s the best real estate agent in New Farm?\u201d And we\u2019ll apply both artificial intelligence in behind and the voice technology on the front, because people are going to want to verbalize that conversation, not type that into Google; that\u2019s going to be too long. You\u2019re going to be in the car, you\u2019ll have these devices that\u2019ll be portable.<br \/>\nWe sat down with our initial launch to think \u201cWell, it has to be useful in some way.\u201d And the technology is early days. It\u2019s mostly about the talking and giving instructions; it\u2019s less about intelligent conversation, which is still a year or two away. That\u2019s developing rapidly. That artificial intelligence is still expensive, and you won\u2019t get it on your kitchen table for $75.<br \/>\nBut in a year, watch this space. It\u2019ll be way more conversational, and you will be able to ask those questions that everyone has that our research shows. \u201cIs there a good property that I can rent with decent air conditioning for the summer in Brisbane?\u201d I\u2019ll bet you that\u2019s a hot topic. And we will verbalize that, not type it.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Nigel, how long will it be before we\u2019ll be able to bring up REA on the computer and talk to you with voice technology, without using the keyboard?<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>We certainly have areas of that. We\u2019ll have that in the next year. And where we emphasize our energy is understanding \u201cWhat are those underlying needs?\u201d The thing that\u2019s driving voice technology is our car. I don\u2019t know if you use things like Siri or OK Google. Alexa is not in the car.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, we do.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s a safety thing. And you have a generation of kids in the back seat watching you do that, and they understand that to be a normal thing to do. So, the generations are the one to watch. Get one, watch your kids use it, and realize they\u2019re not perturbed at all by it not working.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>No, not at all.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>I showed it to my dad over Christmas back in New Zealand. He\u2019s 84 years old and very wary of that technology. He doesn\u2019t want to be rude to it. I saw a lovely study last year of who says please and thank you to artificial intelligence devices.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, you only have to say \u201cThank you\u201d to Google Home and she\u2019ll come back and respond.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>And there was much concern how we were giving kids terrible lessons in manners by ordering these devices around. Everyone has this tone of voice for talking to their Google. You don\u2019t need it. It\u2019ll understand a Kiwi accent like mine talking at this speed. And the incredible advance that\u2019s been delivered to us in these consumer devices is voice recognition and processing that information into a meaningful inquiry.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/strong>Nigel, thank you for spending some time with us. It\u2019s a fascinating area, and I want to get you back on the show to talk more about it, but we\u2019re going to watch it unfold. My guest has been Nigel Dalton who is REA Group\u2019s Chief Inventor.<br \/>\nThank you for your time, Nigel.<br \/>\n<strong>Nigel:\u00a0 <\/strong>My pleasure. Keep pioneering.<\/p>\n<h2>Melbourne yields are up &#8211;\u00a0Cate Bakos<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 There have been some mixed stories about the Melbourne market in recent times, but some good news emerging. Cate Bakos from Cate Bakos Buyer\u2019s Agent in Melbourne, CateBakos.com.au, joins me.<br \/>\nGood morning, Cate.<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good morning, Kevin. How are you going?<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good. Happy New Year to you, too. First time we\u2019ve spoken in 2018.<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Cate, tell me about rental yields. They look to be increasing in the eastern major cities, anyway, particularly in Melbourne.<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s right. We\u2019ve had particularly low rental yields in Melbourne. Always, Melbourne is the lowest capital city for rental yields. But we haven\u2019t seen a lot of rental growth of late, either. We\u2019ve had a really strong growth market, and I guess the down side of something like that is rental yields can drop.<br \/>\nFor the first time in quite a while, we\u2019ve seen an increase in our rents, and it\u2019s been across the board but we\u2019ve particularly noticed it in the inner ring, as well. We\u2019re even seeing large numbers of tenants attending open for inspections and sometimes pushing the rents above the asking range. So, it has been quite noticeable.<br \/>\nI\u2019d put it down to a combination of things, largely APRA\u2019s interventions in investment lending and a slowdown of investors in the market, and also the tightening on bank servicing, which has precluded home ownership for some people who were only just able to secure a home before the measures got a little bit tougher.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you think, too, Cate, it reflects a change in lifestyle for us or an acceptance of a change in lifestyle that we\u2019re finding units much more desirable?<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not necessarily. I think Melbourne is one city, as an example, that has always had an acceptance of people being prepared to rent in areas where they choose to live. And not just the rentvesting model; we also have tenants out there who might be professional tenants who have a portfolio of shares or other investments.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is a wide range of tenants in Melbourne, aren\u2019t there? Very transient?<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we do. We have people on contracts. We have professional tenants who may not necessarily wish to lock themselves into a particular area. We have a pretty broad array of tenants, and so it\u2019s always been quite accepted that we have professional tenants out there and investors have to cater for them.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve also heard a lot of talk over the last 18 months, particularly over the last 6 months, I guess, about an over-supply of apartments in Melbourne. But that\u2019s certainly not being reflected in growth, is it?<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve had some really good growth data for apartments. I was really impressed when I was reading through the growth data in most recent CoreLogic quarterly report to see that what feels apparent out there is actually reflected in the data. So, in the final half of last year, we certainly saw a change in sentiment around particularly boutique gated apartments in great locations.<br \/>\nWhile there has been talk of an over-supply in the inner city, we certainly have a lot of areas that offer apartments, and particularly, really nicely located boutique ones. They have been going really well. They\u2019ve been performing strongly, and we\u2019ve had the first-home buyers largely pushing those, as well.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 This raises a great point, and we\u2019ve spoken many times about how diversified the market is in different parts around Australia. We\u2019re now seeing this diversification emerge in the style of property, as well. You just can\u2019t have a statement that says there\u2019s an over-supply of units in Melbourne when you look at the different styles of units, which is really what you\u2019re highlighting there, Cate.<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely. Units doesn\u2019t just reflect apartments. Units generally reflect something that has been subdivided. So, we have townhouses and villa units in that mix as well. The data integrity is only as good as what\u2019s reported, but we can\u2019t assume that unit just means brand-new, one-bedroom, high-rise apartments; it actually spans a lot of dwellings. And a lot of those dwellings are deemed super-desirable by tenants and by owner-occupiers. Of course, it\u2019s sentiment that drives growth, so we have to take that into account.<br \/>\n<strong>Kevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Great talking to you, Cate Bakos, buyer\u2019s agent out of Melbourne, CateBakos.com.au.<br \/>\nThanks for your time, Cate.<br \/>\n<strong>Cate:<\/strong>\u00a0 Lovely to chat with you, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Highlights from this week: How artificial intelligence will impact property The rate of flipping has dropped Don\u2019t get tempted to take the bait Rents rise through competition Where flipping is most profitable Transcripts: Flipping is &#8216;no flop&#8217; for 90% of investors &#8211;\u00a0Cameron Kusher Kevin:\u00a0 One&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":20090,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-20089","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Flipping as a strategy + Melbourne rents on the rise + Beware of the \u2018free cheese\u2019 - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/flipping-as-a-strategy-melbourne-rents-on-the-rise-beware-of-the-free-cheese\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Flipping as a strategy + Melbourne rents on the rise + Beware of the \u2018free cheese\u2019 - Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Highlights from this week: How artificial intelligence will impact property The rate of flipping has dropped Don\u2019t get tempted to take the bait Rents rise through competition Where flipping is most profitable Transcripts: Flipping is &#8216;no flop&#8217; 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