{"id":19990,"date":"2018-01-21T01:00:21","date_gmt":"2018-01-20T14:00:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=19990"},"modified":"2018-01-21T01:00:21","modified_gmt":"2018-01-20T14:00:21","slug":"small-is-the-new-big-ian-ugarte","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/small-is-the-new-big-ian-ugarte\/","title":{"rendered":"Small is the new BIG \u2013 Ian Ugarte"},"content":{"rendered":"

A new property investing strategy that focuses on an overlooked segment of the market is attracting attention for the high rental yields it provides, while also helping to ease the housing affordability crisis. \u00a0\u00a0We talk to Ian Ugarte<\/a> about \u2018micro apartments\u2019.
\nTranscript:<\/strong>
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 A new property investing strategy that focuses on a very much overlooked segment of the market is attracting attention for the high rental yields that it provides while also helping to ease the housing affordability crisis.
\nThe High Income Real Estate System, otherwise known as HI-RES, which is what we\u2019ll refer to it as in this interview, involves the conversion of an ordinary house into multiple micro-apartments, which can then be individually rented to tenants at rates much lower than they would pay to rent their own house or apartment. The creator of HI-RES is Ian Ugarte, and he joins me.
\nIan, welcome to the show and thanks for your time.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you for having me.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a great concept. A number of things that I want to ask you about. Firstly, tell me a little bit more about HI-RES and how it has been developed.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Essentially, I was in a position where I had a new boss walk into my paid-and-loved job about ten years ago, and I was negatively geared and I realized that I couldn\u2019t leave work, so I quickly turned that around by getting educated and going and becoming a positive cash flow person. I was out of paid employment within 13 months and became a full-time property developer.
\nThen I woke up one morning in 2014 with money in the bank and realized that I was unhappy. Interesting enough, I thought money was going to make me happy and it didn\u2019t. It actually made me sadder.
\nSo, we work towards making everything that we do\u2026 A catchphrase in our company is \u201cIt needs to make sense before it makes dollars.\u201d It has to affect the community in a positive way, and secondly, it has to affect our dollars budget in a positive way as well. If it doesn\u2019t do both, we don\u2019t do the project.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a wonderful topic, and I do want to actually talk to you a little bit more about that. Can I just ask you before we do that, though, Ian, tell me a little bit more about micro-apartments. What do they look like and how are they made up?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 A perfect size micro-apartment is somewhere between 22 to 35 square meters. There are policies across the country that allow you to convert an existing property and build new to have these micro-apartments in it.
\nEssentially, the major requirement of a micro-apartment set-up is that you have a communal residential area where people who have their own separate rooms \u2013 with their own en suite, with their own kitchenette \u2013 also have a main living area where if they choose to socialize with everyone else, they can. If not, they just go back into their own space and sit in their own space and enjoy their life.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is it a bit like a boarding house?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s exactly that. What we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve taken boarding houses, rooming houses, communal residences \u2013 they\u2019re named differently across the country \u2013 and we\u2019ve taken them out of 1917 and we\u2019ve put them into 2017\/2018. They have high-end finishes, we have granite bench tops, we have wall beds that fold up into walls. And we\u2019ve found a really great demand. The perception issue is a big thing around boarding houses, and I can tell you that that\u2019s far from the truth.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about things like insurance? Anyone who owns a property and then converts it into micro-apartments, how are they covered for insurance?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a definite thing that you have to have specialized insurance. We provide, through HI-RES, a specialist broker who looks after this area. Interestingly enough, I thought when I first started investing that it was going to be a really high insurance cost. It\u2019s actually not much more than a standard residential insurance policy. It protects you and it\u2019s multiple protection.
\nPlus, you\u2019re generally furnishing those style of properties, so you have multiple covers in different areas as well as the liability cover because obviously you have more people, an increased possibility of being sued or someone tripping over and hurting themselves. But we do have that policy and it\u2019s not that much more expensive.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m just going to mention a website, which is smallisthenewbig.com.au if you want to get a bit more information about this concept. We\u2019ll continue to talk about it.
\nI\u2019m interested to know from your research and your experience, Ian, is there any one particular property owner who would be attracted to this type of investment? And if so, why?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think that those people who are negatively geared and have worked out that their property is not the greatest investment that they thought it was going to be because of the cash flow every week actually costing them is something that they can look at really closely and really simply.
\nIn most areas of Australia \u2013 and I\u2019m working to change that with the advocacy work that I do \u2013 they can convert their existing properties into positive cash flow pretty quickly. In most areas, we can usually more than double the rent of a rental property in a low density area as soon as you do the conversion.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 How bad is the affordability problem in Australia?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s absolutely huge. We build the largest houses in the world in Australia at 246 square meters. We have two and a half people per household. We have 12 million empty bedrooms tonight. And we have an affordability issue because we have women over the age of 55 who are the biggest growing demographic of homelessness in the country \u2013 that\u2019s what we call white collared homelessness \u2013through no fault of their own.
\nWe started building these and we got knocks on the door and they said, \u201cWe like the property that you\u2019re providing because it\u2019s much cheaper than the nearest rent, that you\u2019re including utilities, and I feel safe in this house.\u201d
\nThe affordability of renting a smaller component of a house is much better for a resident and it\u2019s much better for a tenant because it doesn\u2019t act as a ratio. If I took a four-bedroom house median house rental in Melbourne of a four-bedroom is about $420.
\nAs an investor setting those properties up as four separate micro-apartments, you\u2019re probably going to get somewhere between $800 to $1000 a week. So, you\u2019re providing a better outcome for a resident and you\u2019re actually getting a great return on your investment.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 How much structural work is required in your average three- or four-bedroom home to convert it?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Around the country, it\u2019s going to change slightly depending on the exemptions they have. You will require disability access requirements in most parts of the country to upgrade. Essentially, you may be talking as little as $8000 to $10,000 and up to $20,000 to $25,000, depending on what you require to maneuver \u2013 you need to do wheelchair ramps and a few things like that.
\nBut somewhere between the $10,000 to $25,000 mark is what it costs, and your return on investment on that is just crazy as far as the percentage return is concerned.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 It sounds fantastic and I\u2019m sure it is. You can get a lot more information. I\u2019m going to tell you about some tour dates in a moment too, but smallisthenewbig.com.au is the website. It does sound fantastic, Ian.
\nTell me about some of the down sides. Are there any difficulties in dealing with local councils?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Councils are usually pretty good if the policy is in place. Like I said, I\u2019m advocating to making that change. We do have brilliant policies in Victoria, Brisbane City Council, the state government in New South Wales, the Tasmanian government. The South Australians are great. The Western Australians are great. The Northern Territory and ACT, we\u2019re working at the moment. They don\u2019t really actually have a policy around it, which is what we\u2019re creating.
\nThere is one downside, and the downside is at the moment, the lenders see this as a high-risk property. It\u2019s actually a lower risk property because if you have no one in your investment property, you usually have zero rent coming in. If you have your occupancy at 60%, you\u2019re normally cash flow neutral. The banks are, at the moment, lending at 60% to 70%. We have one lender who will do 75%.
\nWe\u2019re essentially talking to the banks as well, and the lenders as well, and we\u2019re saying, \u201cGive us an 80% lend at a slightly higher interest rate, so it\u2019s actually a mixture between a residential loan and a commercial loan, and then everyone\u2019s happy.\u201d We\u2019re getting closer on that. We do presume that we\u2019re going to have that very soon.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 For someone who wants to move into this area, to have it managed, is it something you can manage yourself \u2013 or do you recommend that they go to a specialist property manager?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Again, part of the HI-RES team is that we have managers across the country in that specialty area who look after this. We actually don\u2019t even manage our own, even though we have an in-house real estate agent.
\nWe suggest that you do get property managers who are specifically trained and look after, firstly, choosing the people, secondly, knowing how the people cooperate within the same household, and thirdly, making sure that they\u2019re always there under control, because it\u2019s a high level of management.
\nYou will pay them a slightly higher percentage. Although, in a slightly higher percentage you\u2019re paying an agent, you\u2019re actually making really great cash flow anyway. They will send someone every couple of weeks to look after and clean, do the gardens, and do everything that\u2019s required in the house.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll mention that website again. The website is smallisthenewbig.com.au. There are a couple of other questions I want to ask you about HI-RES, but before I do, can I just take you into another direction? That is, you\u2019re doing some tours around Australia between the 29th<\/sup>\u00a0of January and the 8th<\/sup>\u00a0of February.
\nTell me where you\u2019ll be and what we can expect to see at those seminars.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 I normally run a two- to two-and-a-half-hour seminar. I touch on the issue we have on affordability in Australia and how the property investors of Australia are the solution. The government is not the solution. The government is about creating policy and then getting out of the way.
\nInvestors are actually waiting on the sidelines. We have a huge number of investors already started who have been with us for about a year to 18 months and are doing great things in the area.
\nWe start on the 29th<\/sup>\u00a0in Brisbane. It\u2019s a night-time thing. We\u2019ll have the 29th<\/sup>\u00a0in Brisbane, 30th<\/sup>\u00a0in Newcastle, 31st<\/sup>\u00a0in Parramatta, Sydney on the 1st<\/sup>. We have Perth on the 5th<\/sup>, Glen Waverly and Melbourne on the 6th<\/sup>, Melbourne on the 7th<\/sup>, and Gold Coast on the 8th<\/sup>\u00a0to finish the tour.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow, that\u2019s a lot of flying around. Those tour dates, you\u2019ll find them all on that website, smallisthenewbig.com.au. Can I just ask you what can we expect to see at that seminar in that two hours? Will you be talking about this type of investment and who it best suits?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely. We\u2019ll talk about all the positives that come out of being able to invest in the rooming houses and the communal residences around the country. I\u2019ll be showing some success stories of students who have already gone through and joined us and had some really great cash flow. Some of our own deals that I\u2019ll show up there too.
\nI\u2019ll be taking you through all the different policies around the country, so after leaving there, you\u2019ll be able to actually understand there are policies there. I\u2019m about full compliance, and I\u2019m going to give you a snapshot of those policies and how you can use them in your existing rental properties.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Fantastic. Those dates, again, from the 29th<\/sup>\u00a0of January to the 8th<\/sup>\u00a0of February, and all the details at the website, smallisthenewbig.com.au. You\u2019ll be finding out more about HI-RES.
\nIan Ugarte has been my guest. Ian, thank you very much. Congratulations on the great work that you\u2019re doing, and I look forward to seeing you at one of those seminars.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A new property investing strategy that focuses on an overlooked segment of the market is attracting attention for the high rental yields it provides, while also helping to ease the housing affordability crisis. \u00a0\u00a0We talk to Ian Ugarte about \u2018micro apartments\u2019. Transcript: Kevin:\u00a0 A new…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":20017,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[32,34,10,11,13,36,22,25,27],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-19990","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-buying-a-property-topic","category-finance-topic","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-property-investment-topic","category-research-topic","category-sponsored-channels","category-trends-topic","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nSmall is the new BIG \u2013 Ian Ugarte - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/small-is-the-new-big-ian-ugarte\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Small is the new BIG \u2013 Ian Ugarte - Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"A new property investing strategy that focuses on an overlooked segment of the market is attracting attention for the high rental yields it provides, while also helping to ease the housing affordability crisis. \u00a0\u00a0We talk to Ian Ugarte about \u2018micro apartments\u2019. 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