{"id":13696,"date":"2017-09-06T01:00:58","date_gmt":"2017-09-05T15:00:58","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=13696"},"modified":"2017-09-06T01:00:58","modified_gmt":"2017-09-05T15:00:58","slug":"an-insight-to-property-in-super-ian-rodrigues","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/an-insight-to-property-in-super-ian-rodrigues\/","title":{"rendered":"An insight to property in super – Ian Rodrigues"},"content":{"rendered":"

Maybe you are like me and have some property in your super scheme.\u00a0 We did it quite some time ago and while it was not easy at the time, it has been a good investment.\u00a0 Ian Rodrigues<\/strong> lays out the pros and cons of doing it today.
\nTranscript :<\/strong>
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re going to tackle a big topic now. Ian Rodrigues joins me. Ian is the director of Bishop Collins Group, and we\u2019re going to talk about superannuation, having a super fund and residential property.
\nWe\u2019ll focus on residential property, I think, Ian, because you can put a lot into super, but let\u2019s just focus on residential because it\u2019s a pretty broad issue, isn\u2019t it really?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Superannuation self-managed funds are increasing in popularity. There are so many more of these funds. There are over 550,000 of them in Australia, and they\u2019re growing at a fairly rapid rate.
\nThere are a lot of people voting with their feet and setting up their own fund. One of the first things they come to is \u201cWhat do I do with it?\u201d and the classic thing would be a term deposit, which is not really a great investment long term. Then they go to look at either property or shares. Residential property for a lot of people is a very comfortable and known asset class.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 We did it. We did it many years ago, and it\u2019s certainly been a good investment for us. But I thought we might quickly run through, from your perspective and what you\u2019re learning, some of the pros and cons. What do you see as some of the pros, Ian?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 The major benefit for holding an investment in residential property in super is going to be taxation. We have personal tax rates at \u2013 call it \u2013 50%, at the top rate and sliding down if you\u2019re on lower incomes. We have a corporate tax rate at 30% at the moment and there is some slight variation to some of that with small business, but superannuation funds are taxed at 15%, and on capital gains currently, it\u2019s 10%. When the fund is in pension phase, the income and capital gains are generally taxed at 0%.
\nHaving an asset that you\u2019re paying no tax on the income and no tax on the gain that may have accrued over 10 or 20 years is a very attractive proposition. Taxation has to be the number one reason.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about asset protection?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things we do like about superannuation and self-managed funds is that a lot of our clients are business people and facing all sorts of risks from dozens of pieces of legislation and things that make them personally liable.
\nIn the event that you\u2019re facing personal bankruptcy, one of the few things you get to keep apart from the shirt on your back and\u2026
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 The kids.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026And your kids, yes. The bank seems to mortgage them, don\u2019t they?
\nOne of the few things you get to keep is, in fact, your super. You may potentially lose all of your other assets \u2013 you can try protecting them a bit \u2013 but super is one thing that in the legislation, you\u2019re allowed to keep. It\u2019s something that is protected by law.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a big plus, actually. Off air, you mentioned to me about land tax as well. There could be a benefit there too, is there?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 For the listeners who are feeling the pain of land tax, if they\u2019re investing heavily in one state or just have a few properties, they know how painful that is to get that bill each year. You only get one threshold and that sort of thing in each state. Super funds, again, your self-managed fund, is entitled to another threshold.
\nYou can have a situation where someone is paying land tax in New South Wales, and if they bought another property in their name, they would be taxable on the full value, but in their self-managed fund, they would be entitled to another threshold and probably not paying land tax.
\nTo be honest, land tax isn\u2019t the sole reason. You\u2019re probably in super, but a threshold being worth about $6000 per annum, it\u2019s not an insignificant reason.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, it\u2019s not. Having been through this myself, I know it\u2019s not an easy thing to do to put property in there. Lenders, how are they looking at it right now, Ian?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Historically, if you asked me this question six months ago, lenders were looking at it. Since that time, there have been a lot of APRA changes and other things just with investor lending generally. At the moment, lenders are still doing it, they\u2019re still keen, they\u2019re in business, but there is a lot more complexity.
\nI think the best advice I have for clients now is to actually, more than ever, shop around because the lending policies of each lender seem to vary almost monthly of what they will and won\u2019t do. There are some banks that will do super loans but not for residential property. Some won\u2019t do them. Some do them but only if you\u2019re a customer.
\nThere are other lenders out there other than the Big Four as well, so my advice at the moment is to shop around. There is still an active market. They still want to do these deals. But just be realistic. You\u2019re not going to get the discounted home loan rates. You may not get the highest LVRs possible and you may have to look around at places where you just don\u2019t walk into your usual bank to get that loan.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Shop around; that\u2019s really good advice. Paperwork, understanding the paperwork, and I guess the other message here too, Ian, is just be very careful who you take advice from. They need to be an expert in this field.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely, Kevin. The risk with superannuation lending is that there are probably a dozen things that can go horribly wrong, and a lot of the horribly wrong things are in the paperwork, which is not what the taxpayers should be concerned about; it\u2019s all stuff for their advisors. It can be an inadvertent mistake. It could be just stating the trust deed incorrectly. All of those things can go horribly wrong.
\nWhere the deposit gets paid from is incredibly important. That can end up with paying double stamp duty down the track if you don\u2019t pay the money from the right accounts and get the right names on things.
\nA lot of these repercussions are minor issues that people say \u201cI paid it out on one account. I can fix that up.\u201d But no, you can\u2019t. It could cost you a lot of money, and sometimes it could stop the whole deal being structured in super. And sometimes these are the things you don\u2019t find out until down the track and everyone is looking at each other.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had someone who relayed a horror story to me. Well, they didn\u2019t relay it to me because they didn\u2019t know that it was a problem. They had purchased a property in their super and they were actually living in it as a holiday home, and I said, \u201cYou can\u2019t do that.\u201d When they found out, they went and got some good advice then because they had been told that you could do that. But that\u2019s one of the things you can\u2019t do, isn\u2019t it?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 With holiday houses in super, I have reservations about those, full stop, whether they are actually a great investment anyway. But with any asset in super, the sole purpose test, which is the major test for a super fund, the sole purpose is to provide retirement benefits has been interpreted to be almost entirely black and white.
\nIt would seem to me it\u2019s not logical. It\u2019s just a black and white rule. It means that you cannot rent residential assets to yourself or to associates, which is a very wide definition and would include your family members and sometimes quite further than that.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even business associates, I would imagine.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 It can. If you read the definition of a \u201cPart 8 associate,\u201d it goes for pages. So, the short answer is if you\u2019re thinking of doing anything other than this as a straight investment, you really need to make sure that what you\u2019re contemplating is going to be allowed.
\nYou always have people who think they might play a funny game and not put it through the books and all of that. To me, the problem with that is it isn\u2019t a funny game when you\u2019re sitting down and it\u2019s all gone pear-shaped.
\nA lot of the penalties on super\u2026 The Tax Office don\u2019t have a lot of penalties in-between like a slap on the wrist. They have \u201cmake the fund non-complying,\u201d which is the nuclear option, or ignore it. And they don\u2019t have a lot of discretion either. It is a bit of a problem in the legislation that they\u2019re trying to address about having some penalties that are more commensurate with the crime. Otherwise, everyone seems to get the death sentence, so it\u2019s not good.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are some other restrictions, too, with lending in there in terms of your ability to re-gear as well. Is that right, Ian?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. The single biggest thing your listeners need to be aware of is that it\u2019s great to have the tax, great to have the asset protection, great to have an extra land tax threshold, and all of those things make sense, but the biggest thing practically speaking for an investor is the fact that when you set the loan repayment or the loan at a certain level \u2013 so you have a $500,000 property with a $300,000 loan, say \u2013 if you pay down that loan, you can never redraw it. Even if the bank would like to give you the money, they can\u2019t because that\u2019s not how these loans work. There is no ability to redraw a loan.
\nEven if you don\u2019t pay down the $300,000 and you save up your surpluses for a deposit on a second property, one day when that property might be worth $1 million, you cannot re-gear that property and increase the loan. You cannot redraw or increase the loan.
\nFor some investors at their stage of investing, that is a major detriment. For a lot of investors, it\u2019s not an issue whatsoever and the danger for them is that they happily go\u2026 When people have a loan, they have a tendency to try and repay it and then not be aware that it can\u2019t be redrawn.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 In closing, what are the costs like in putting a residential property into super, Ian?
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a very common question, Kevin. A lot of people want to know what it\u2019s all going to cost. As a guide, there are a lot of different people selling super funds with different vested interests than what they\u2019re actually selling you, but if someone was just buying a super fund and doing their own investing, it\u2019s probably going to cost you no more than $5000 to set up the fund and get all of the financial advice that you need to be able to get a super loan.
\nProviding a self-managed fund and advising on obtaining a super loan is financial advice, so it must come from a licensed person, which can be your accountant. Sometimes they are licensed, but otherwise, it has to be from a licensed person. And most of the banks require a sign-off from that person saying you have been given financial advice.
\nThere are some costs on each deal, so each deal might cost $2000 or $3000 in terms of trust deeds and extra stamp duty that you need to pay on those things. But what you find is that the second one, you don\u2019t have all of those setup costs. There\u2019s a once-off setting up the fund and that type of thing, and then there are those transactional costs for each one.
\nIf those are a big issue for people, then often, the size of the investment and the size of the fund isn\u2019t quite where it needs to be. But for most people, they just need to know roughly what it\u2019s going to cost.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a really great insight, Ian. But I think the bottom line here is make sure that you\u2019re dealing with a company who knows what the rules are and what the regulations are because as you said earlier in our chat, if you get it wrong, boy, it can be really, really painful.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it can be.
\nKevin:<\/strong>\u00a0 My advice: Bishop Collins Group \u2013 that\u2019s where Ian is from \u2013 you\u2019ll find them at their website, BishopCollins.com.au. Also a great blogspot as well, BishopCollins.blogspot.com.au.
\nIan Rodrigues, thank you so much for your time.
\nIan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks very much, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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