{"id":12407,"date":"2017-06-30T03:00:03","date_gmt":"2017-06-29T17:00:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=12407"},"modified":"2017-06-30T03:00:03","modified_gmt":"2017-06-29T17:00:03","slug":"the-choices-we-have-to-make-because-of-unaffordability-regions-vs-cities-interest-only-the-good-bad-and-ugly","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/the-choices-we-have-to-make-because-of-unaffordability-regions-vs-cities-interest-only-the-good-bad-and-ugly\/","title":{"rendered":"The choices we have to make because of unaffordability + Regions vs Cities + Interest only \u2013 the good, bad and ugly"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><b><i><span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">Highlights from this week:<\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>The good points about interest-only borrowing<\/li>\n<li>The downsides and should there be a combination of interest only and P &amp; I<\/li>\n<li>The most expensive country in the world to get a property on the internet is Australia<\/li>\n<li>Are auction results a real barometer of the market?<\/li>\n<li>Dr Andrew Wilson checks the pulse of the market<\/li>\n<li>What is really happening in the regions<\/li>\n<li>The choices being made because of unaffordability<\/li>\n<li>What Michael Yardney would do differently<\/li>\n<li>When to market a property and when to sell \u2018off market\u2019<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<br \/>\n<strong>Transcripts:<\/strong><\/p>\n<h2>What we can learn from asking prices\u00a0\u2013\u00a0Dr Andrew Wilson<\/h2>\n<p><b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>My guest is Dr. Andrew Wilson from the Domain Group.<br \/>\nAndrew, let\u2019s talk about asking prices nationally. What are we learning from the asking prices?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Interesting; we had some press last week with some sales price data that was released, which was a little perplexing at a number of levels because it showed that prices had actually fallen over May.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Is the gap between the list and the sale price increasing?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>It can. According to the cycle, of course, or reflecting the cycle, it can move, but the relativities actually remain the same. There\u2019s no doubt, of course, that asking prices are always higher than sale prices, because why would you ask something, unless you\u2019re in a trough of a market?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s an indicator if it\u2019s the other way around. Then you know you\u2019re in a booming market.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s right, but asking prices\u2026 And of course, these are properties that are listed for private treaty, so they\u2019re part of them, and for most capital city markets, that\u2019s the vast majority. Even in Melbourne, which has 30% of its marketed properties under the hammer, you still have 70% that are listed for private treaty.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s an interesting point I want to pick up on, because we so often look at the auction market and talk about clearance rates and how the market is going, but in one of the biggest auction markets in Australia, it only represents 30% of the market.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Three out of ten sales, Kevin, and in Sydney it\u2019s two and a half sales out of ten, and that\u2019s up from 15% of the market. And in Brisbane, it\u2019s only 7%.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Why aren\u2019t we tracking clearance rates on private treaty sales, and also days on market? Because you look at days on market at an auction, it\u2019s going to be around about 30 days, give or take a few days, because that\u2019s an auction campaign. Days on market for private treaty are sometimes up to 45 days, and 45 days is a fairly normal market.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, and the point with days on market is you have to have a sale. But with listings data, it\u2019s here and now. Nothing changes, because this is properties that are for sale. And people don\u2019t make mistakes, because we can get mistakes in some of the official sales data.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It depends. Garbage in, garbage out.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, that\u2019s right. But listings people make sure they\u2019re not advertising the wrong price.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, they\u2019re publicly listed.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, that\u2019s exactly right. And the point is it\u2019s here and now, it\u2019s not relying upon a sale, so it\u2019s real-time data. I\u2019m now focusing more and more now on asking price data as being a robust insight for the market. As you said, Kevin, it does reflect the vast majority of activity\u2026<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>More so than auctions, and we try to determine where the market is going by the auction numbers.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>We can\u2019t. Not necessarily a pass in; I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the same.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>But it\u2019s part of the sales cycle.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s right. There\u2019s not the same sort of impetus to sell under the hammer as there is down south. It can, in fact, be an entry point into the sale. So, those 50% clearance rates \u2013 which is typically what you do see in Brisbane \u2013 in Melbourne or Sydney, you\u2019d be saying that\u2019s definitely a buyer\u2019s market. But no, not in Brisbane, because it\u2019s just a very small snapshot, and not really a reflective snapshot of what\u2019s happening in the wider market, because the wider market is basically 95% of the market.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I used to think that it was a reflection on agents, that agents in Queensland were not as good at the auction market. But I don\u2019t think it is. I think it is a culture and I think in the southern market, Sydney and Melbourne, people are used to buying at auctions. They\u2019re a lot more aggressive about their offers, they try to secure before, they go to an auction with a clear intent to buy.<br \/>\nWhereas in Queensland, you probably go to an auction to try and find out what the market is doing \u2013 whether or not it\u2019s going to sell, what the values are.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>The auction scenario typically favors inner-suburban high-price properties, and in Melbourne and Sydney, there\u2019s plenty of competition for that sort of property. You have to have competition to make an auction work, because that\u2019s the whole basis. You want lots of people standing on the front lawn.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Hammering it out.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Blood on the dirt, and all that sort of stuff.<br \/>\nBut asking prices, as we said, are robust. We certainly had Melbourne leading the charge up by 4.9% over May. Big boom up there in Melbourne continuing. Canberra up 4.1%. The rest just sort of trailed along. Sydney up 1.1. Brisbane was relatively flat over May, down by just 0.7%.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Sum it up for me, mate. Where is the market headed?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>The winter market, which is a quieter period for property particularly down south, and the Brisbane market picks up. Always, Brisbane tends to be second half of the year market. Down south, they have a pause until the spring selling season starts.<br \/>\nAnd the markets have been easing backwards in both Sydney and Melbourne. We had auction clearance rates down over May in Sydney and down over May in Melbourne as well, but still strong results. Melbourne has got a clearance rate over the four months of 75% and Sydney 71.6%.<br \/>\nSo, still strong conditions for sellers. Volumes have been at near-record levels this year, Kevin. We have auction numbers up by 30% in Sydney over the first five months of this year compared to last year, and up by 15% in Melbourne, so plenty of confidence from sellers.<br \/>\nIs it a rush to market? Maybe a little bit of that energy. I think sellers are wanting to take advantage of the still strong conditions, but the X factor in the market will be those stamp duty concessions that come into play from the 1<sup>st<\/sup> of July in New South Wales and Victoria.<br \/>\nWill it release a flood of first-home buyers? Of course, they can buy established properties with that discount, which means that they\u2019ll be activating change-over buyers, and we may see that ripple effect with prices rising.<br \/>\nBut no doubt that the Melbourne market is the strongest market in the country at the moment. Sydney is easing, but prices are still growing. I think there\u2019s a relief all around that Sydney\u2019s boom now seems to be behind it. But as I said, the X factor, the first-home buyer surge from the 1<sup>st<\/sup> of July.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Great having you on the show, mate. Thank you very much for your time.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Andrew:\u00a0 <\/b>Always great to be here, Kevin.<br \/>\n&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>Interest Only &#8211; The good, bad and ugly\u00a0\u2013\u00a0Andrew Mirams<\/h2>\n<p><b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Borrowers are constantly asking the questions about \u201cIs it a time to be doing interest-only? Maybe I should be splitting my loan up and paying principal and interest.\u201d Let\u2019s get a good look here, a bit of a focus on what the good, the bad, and the ugly, is with interest-only borrowing. Joining me to discuss that, Andrew Mirams from Intuitive Finance.<br \/>\nAndrew, thanks for your time.<br \/>\n<b>Andrew:<\/b>\u00a0 My pleasure, Kevin. Thank you.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 What\u2019s the good, the bad, and the ugly? Let\u2019s start with the good. What are the good points about interest-only borrowing?<br \/>\n<b>Andrew:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. I think with interest-only, obviously one of the benefits is it reduces your cash flow outgoings. When you have your rents coming in and your outgoings going out, not having to pay the principal component reduces your outgoings and that makes it more affordable and easier to hold your properties, especially if you\u2019re growing your portfolio.<br \/>\nAnother great point with interest-only is it allows you to prioritize your debt reduction or your debt allocation. You want to be paying off non-deductible debt, especially if you have any personal debt or a home loan, which isn\u2019t deductible. You would be wanting to make your principal or capital reductions to those loans versus allowing the tax-effective debt for your investment sitting there and not having to repay it.<br \/>\nAnother thing is you can have an offset account still against the interest-only loan, and that can sit there and obviously then further reduce your outgoings the more you have in your offset account.<br \/>\nAnd finally, the best thing probably about interest-only lending when you\u2019re doing it for buying investment is the tax effectiveness of it.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Some great points there that you make on the upside. What about the downside? There have got to be some bad points to it as well, Andrew.<br \/>\n<b>Andrew:<\/b>\u00a0 This is where careful consideration of every person\u2019s situation has to be taken into account. Some of the bad things that we\u2019ve seen over the journey is that people get complacent with the lower cash flow requirements and the outgoings and they can then lack the discipline to monitor their spending and put that extra aside in your offset account or something like that.<br \/>\nThe knock-on to that is when the interest-only period actually expires, you can then be faced with higher repayments, and if you haven\u2019t got those disciplines and haven\u2019t awoken out of your complacency and you don\u2019t have the upturn in your income to be able to meet that, it can put you at risk.<br \/>\nAnother bad thing that people often don\u2019t think about is that by not making any capital right from the outset, it actually makes your loan more expensive over the life of the loan.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 There are a lot of things to consider. I guess the bottom line here, as always, is make sure that you consult a professional to find out what your personal situation is.<br \/>\nGive us the ugly, the real bad bit.<br \/>\n<b>Andrew:<\/b>\u00a0 Sadly this happens as well. What if your property hasn\u2019t performed and you haven\u2019t had any capital growth? What if actually then you\u2019ve bought a property\u2026 In recent times, we\u2019ve had the mining towns downturn and things like that. What if by paying no capital off, you\u2019re now sitting on some negative equity? What we mean by that is the property is worth less than your actual loan, and now you\u2019re not paying anything off it. It can really put you at risk, I guess, without careful consideration.<br \/>\nThe other thing is what if you\u2019re unable to meet your repayments on the expiry of that fixed rate? That can lead to some forced asset sales and things like that if you haven\u2019t been able to monitor your spending and be accountable through the journey of your interest-only period.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 We say again, make sure you take professional advice, and you\u2019ll certainly get that if you talk to Andrew Mirams and his team at Intuitive Finance. You can contact them through the website, RealEstateTalk.com.au.<br \/>\nThanks for your time, Andrew. Great talking to you, mate.<br \/>\n<b>Andrew:<\/b>\u00a0 My pleasure, Kevin. Thank you.<br \/>\n&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>What I would change &#8211; <a href=\"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/featured-channel\/michael-yardney\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Michael Yardney<\/a><\/h2>\n<p><b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s an old saying I love to use, and that is that successful people leave clues. It\u2019s always interesting to ask a successful person what they would do differently if they started over again. Michael Yardney joins me to answer that question.<br \/>\nMichael, if you had your time again, what would you do differently?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Michael:\u00a0 <\/b>That\u2019s a good question, Kevin. I think in hindsight, I would have spent more time educating myself, so I wouldn\u2019t have to make all those mistakes I made in the first 10 or 15 years of my property investing. I\u2019m actually very fortunate, I built a substantial property portfolio now, but it would have been even bigger \u2013 much bigger \u2013 if I knew then what I know now.<br \/>\nI think for most people, the first step in the journey is to educate themselves, and that is what I still do today. I know you still do. It\u2019s actually what all successful property investors do.<br \/>\nIn my effort to achieve this, many years ago, I discovered that my own learnings, my own experiences really weren\u2019t enough. So, I started reading books, going to teachers, getting mentors, even paying consultants for advice.<br \/>\nAnd interestingly, Kevin, they all pointed to one direction: you can learn from history. Books recount stories, teachers explained research, mentors taught from experience, consultants cited best practice.<br \/>\nI guess the big learning point, Kevin, was I didn\u2019t have to start from the beginning myself; I could learn from other people\u2019s mistakes, not my own.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Did you learn that lesson early in the piece?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Michael: \u00a0<\/b>Unfortunately, Kevin, I didn\u2019t. Initially, I guess I didn\u2019t want to pay for advice, maybe for two reasons. One, I was cheap. I didn\u2019t think I could afford it. I have now learned that advice isn\u2019t an expense; it\u2019s an investment.<br \/>\nBut the other is I think I was taught by my parents to learn from experience, learn on your own. And boy, Kevin, that\u2019s a very hard way of doing things. The market teaches you lessons that are costly in many ways \u2013 financially and emotionally.<br \/>\nI guess what I\u2019ve learned is experience is an expensive teacher. I love that saying. I heard that experience is what you get two minutes after you need it.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I guess we\u2019re also restricted by our internal wealth programing, aren\u2019t we?<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Michael:\u00a0 <\/b>Exactly right. What this means is that you can only grow your wealth to the extent that your internal financial thermostat is there. At Wealth Retreats and doing my big seminars, I talk about this concept of imagine yourself as a cup. If a cup is very small, you can only accumulate a small amount of money, and any extra just spills over and you lose it. You simply can\u2019t have more money than the size of your cup. The answer is to grow yourself into a bigger cup so that you attract and keep more wealth.<br \/>\nI\u2019ve heard somebody else say that you can\u2019t drive a Lamborghini with the engine of a Mini Minor. So, what you really have to do is upgrade your wealth programming, the way you think and the way you react about money.<br \/>\nAs we often spoken about in our chats, Kevin, successful investing has a lot to do with property, finance and tax, but it has just as much to do with your own internal wealth programming. And that\u2019s a lesson I learned a bit late in the piece, but boy, has it changed the way I move forward.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>While there may be no guarantees to success, Michael, there are proven ways for you to be successful, aren\u2019t there? Which is really what you\u2019re talking about.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Michael:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, it is. I guess I learned that concept from Tony Robins. He called it modeling. In other words, what you do is he describes the process of finding proven models, saying that you should look at the very best people in any field that you\u2019re in, how they behave and how they think, and then you should do the same as they do, because when you do, you can often repeat their success, Kevin.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Great talking to you, Michael. Thank you very much for your time. Michael Yardney from Metropole Property Strategists. Thanks, mate.<b><\/b><br \/>\n<b>Michael:\u00a0 <\/b>My pleasure, Kevin.<br \/>\n&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>Regional revolution\u00a0\u2013\u00a0Margaret Lomas<\/h2>\n<p><b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 When we talk about investment properties, we\u2019re hearing more and more about regional properties, and I\u2019m just interested to know if they\u2019re becoming more attractive to investors, and if so, why. Margaret Lomas from Destiny Financial Solutions joins me, also the star of Sky TV and <i>Real Estate Success with Margaret Lomas<\/i>.<br \/>\nMargaret, welcome to the show again. Nice to be talking to you.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s great to be back.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You\u2019re into the new season on Sky, too, looking really good.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 I get excited about every new season. We try to come up with a couple of new things for each of those new seasons. Yes, it\u2019s quite exciting for me to be going into season nine. It\u2019s been nine years now, which is great.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s a tremendous story, isn\u2019t it? One of the things I love about talking to you, too, on the back of the show is that you get to see so many of the regional areas around Australia. Are you noticing, are they becoming more attractive to investors, Margaret?<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s funny because many, many years ago, I was definitely talking about the regions as viable places to invest. At the time, I got a bit of a reputation for being a property investor who only ever invested in the regions. I remember reading about myself as if I was stuck on the regions and nowhere else, when at the time, my own portfolio was probably 70% city or capital cities and only 30% regions.<br \/>\nIt\u2019s important for all investors to note that you can\u2019t just say \u201cIs it good to invest in the regions?\u201d without looking all around that at everything else that\u2019s happening. But there are definitely times when the regions are a better place to invest and times when they\u2019re not.<br \/>\nI\u2019ve always said that anyone who says the most important thing when you\u2019re investing is time in market, that would normally come from someone who is probably trying to sell you a dodgy investment that needs time to perform. I actually believe the most important thing when property investing is market timing, and whether to invest in regions or not comes down to market timing.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s an interesting twist. I\u2019ve never heard it put that way. Is this the time, and are there certain markets that we should be looking at, Margaret?<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. I think we\u2019re coming toward a time when we are going to see some regional markets perform very well, but it won\u2019t be all regional markets. Just like with all property, everyone is talking about the big property boom at the moment, but if you speak to someone in Adelaide, they\u2019re going to say, \u201cWhat property boom? We\u2019re not having a property boom here.\u201d<br \/>\nIt\u2019s the same with regional markets. There will be times when some of them are good to invest in, times when they\u2019re not, and other regional markets that are never going to present a good investment in our lifetime.<br \/>\nI feel at the moment, those regional areas that are really worth watching are the ones that are closer to our recently boomed capital cities and even those ones if you have a little bit more time to wait, close to those capital cities of ours that haven\u2019t quite boomed yet or still have more grunt in them. They\u2019re normally the kind of regional areas where you\u2019re just beginning to see people move out to them by choice and commute back to their city jobs.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s that ripple effect \u2013 isn\u2019t it? \u2013 that ripples out.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. It\u2019s a ripple effect that\u2019s forced on us by the fact that, very often, those main areas, those main cities, do reach a point where the average person can no longer afford to buy in, and they then make that choice. It reaches a point where they make that choice where it now becomes better to put up with the longer commute to save the money before it gets to that peak where it\u2019s far too expensive.<br \/>\nPeople are willing to pay a bit more, a bit more, and a bit more, but it reaches a point then where they go, \u201cRight now, it\u2019s worth me spending that hour to an hour and a half on the train every morning and afternoon to get both a better lifestyle and also a cheaper property.\u201d<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s the improvements \u2013 isn\u2019t it? \u2013 that are going into an area to attract people there, because if you attract the people there, they like living there, and even if they do have to travel a bit for work, they\u2019re still going to need some housing accommodation, which would be the magnet.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s exactly right, and that was going to be my next point. You can\u2019t just point to any regional area just outside of a capital city and within commutable distance and say, \u201cThat one is going to take off.\u201d<br \/>\nIt isn\u2019t going to take off if it isn\u2019t providing a certain amount of amenity, and normally, better amenity than you can get if you were to live in the cheapest place you could find in the nearby capital city.<br \/>\nLet me give Sydney as a good example. In Sydney, you can choose to either move all the way out to a suburb as far out as you can possibly imagine that may not have a lot of amenity, or you can invest or buy in the Central Coast with a similar commute time and yet a lot more amenity, because you could be living right near the beach or certainly on water. You\u2019d probably get water views for the amount of money that you won\u2019t get anything in Sydney.<br \/>\nYou\u2019re going to get a lot of other good amenity with caf\u00e9s really starting to come. We\u2019re seeing a lot more caf\u00e9s and great dining options, a bit more culture, certainly big shopping centers, and all of the stuff that people really want, and it\u2019s only an-hour-and-a-half commute from Sydney.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Great example. Margaret, are there any Internet sites that you monitor that will indicate to you that these areas should be looked at a little closer?<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 I don\u2019t like Internet sites and I don\u2019t like data, because to me, all they\u2019re doing is telling us the obvious that we can see and witness with our own eyes. If you\u2019re seeing it, then you\u2019re probably too late already, which is why I don\u2019t like those sites.<br \/>\nI simply use maps. I find out where those areas are that are getting really hot, go in, look at my maps, start looking around those areas, go back to RealEstate.com, see what properties are selling there for. If they\u2019re significantly cheaper, I start then to narrow down the process: are the days on market reducing in those areas to show that people are starting to gain an interest?<br \/>\nThen I go to the council to see what they\u2019re doing. Then I work out whether there are schools close enough by where the people can get close enough to a bus stop, a train stop, or light rail or whatever else is available, and then start the process of being able to whittle down. And in doing that, you\u2019ll toss areas off the list.<br \/>\nAt the moment, I\u2019m thinking not only the Central Coast makes a good opportunity. You can certainly buy a house and land here for between $500,000 and $600,000, which probably sounds a lot to a lot of people up in Brisbane, but it\u2019s quite cheap in the scheme of things in the Sydney area.<br \/>\nBut there are other places I really like too, like Sunbury in Melbourne. People call that a regional area. Have you been there? It\u2019s ten minutes from the airport, so I don\u2019t see that as a regional area, yet we\u2019re starting to see a lot of things happening out that way.<br \/>\nEven places like Geelong: there are outer suburbs of Geelong that are being developed that are subject to a lot of really good infrastructure that are going to give some really good returns for investors and great places for people to live.<br \/>\nPakenham out toward the east there: that\u2019s another affordable area that\u2019s definitely commutable not only to Melbourne but highly commutable to the Monash employment lands, which are going to employ 50,000 people in the coming ten years. There is plenty of them out there and available.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 That is great advice. You can get a lot more of that sort of advice by following Margaret on her shows on Sky TV 602. There are a couple of shows, <i>Property Success with Margaret Lomas<\/i> and the other one is more of a talk style where people actually call you up and ask you about areas.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. <i>Your Money Your Call<\/i>, and we try to tell people don\u2019t necessarily ring up and ask about areas because that makes a really boring show when every caller says, \u201cWhat about this area? What about this area? What about this area?\u201d But people ring us up with all sorts of questions. They ask us about property and tax, they ask us about the Budget, they ask us about all sorts of things: insurance. Every single question you can imagine related to property, we get asked on that show and we can usually answer them.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You always do every time I watch. Margaret, great talking to you. Thank you so much for your time. Margaret Lomas from Destiny Financial Solutions, I look forward to seeing you on telly really soon.<br \/>\n<b>Margaret:<\/b>\u00a0 Great. Thank you.<br \/>\n&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>Real Estate &#8216;unmasked&#8217;\u00a0\u2013\u00a0Peter O&#8217;Malley<\/h2>\n<p><b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I was interested to pick up a book the other day written by Peter O\u2019Malley. Peter is a real estate agent. He is the principal of an agency called Harris Partners, and Peter\u2019s been in the industry for quite a long time. It is an interesting read because it goes into a lot of things that are near and dear to my heart as well, particularly the changes in the industry and how agents need to mold what they do to meet those changes, the major one being digital disruption. Peter joins me.<br \/>\nPeter, thank you very much for your time, and congratulations on the book.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 Thank you, Kevin. And thanks for having me along.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s a pleasure. The book is called <i>Inside<\/i> <i>Real<\/i> <i>Estate<\/i>. I\u2019ll tell you how you can get it a little bit later in the interview. Let\u2019s talk about digital disruption because there is a lot of talk both within the industry and outside the industry. How has that changed the way agents work from your perspective, Peter?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 The way it\u2019s changed the agents\u2019 workings, Kevin, is they\u2019ve become a lot more database-oriented than outright advertisers of real estate. Real estate is still advertised, of course, Kevin, but we\u2019re seeing a lot of instances where agents nurture their database and are able to offer vendors an off-market transaction without the need to go to the open marketplace as such.<br \/>\nIn some market conditions, I support that strategy, Kevin, and in other market conditions, I question that strategy. If the market is in a full-frontal boom \u2013 and the Sydney property market, for example, rose 20% in the last nine months \u2013 in those circumstances, I would always encourage an owner to expose their property to the open market because you never know how high the price can go.<br \/>\nBut in a slow market \u2013 say, what you might have in Townsville at the moment \u2013 if you want to sell your house and an agent should happen to pop up with a qualified, ready-to-go, cash buyer off-market, you\u2019re probably well-advised to sell off-market, because the open market is probably not going to be any more generous to you given that, say, Townsville is so flat at the moment.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Interesting, Peter, to hear you make that comment about marketing, particularly online. I don\u2019t know whether you\u2019re aware, but Australia is the most expensive country in the world to advertise on the Internet, and I think that\u2019s a disgrace.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019m very aware of that point, Kevin. I\u2019ve previously written a blog about that point as such. Consumers need to ask themselves what value are they getting for these expensive Internet ads? And that\u2019s a topic that is covered in the book.<br \/>\nThat is something that I believe has driven off-market trades in the industry, Kevin, as real estate agents are saying, \u201cHang on. Why am I going to spend thousands of dollars advertising to buyers who I already know? Why don\u2019t I just cut the third-party provider out?\u201d And that\u2019s an understandable business strategy that agents are adopting to consumers\u2019 benefit and one that I applaud.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Just to stretch that thinking a little bit further, here we\u2019re talking about two major portals \u2013 RealEstate.com.au and Domain.com.au \u2013 that are charging extraordinary figures to advertise when you can go to the States and it\u2019s next to nothing to advertise on the Internet. I sometimes wonder if there is room for a third player, a third serious player, who\u2019s going to hold both of these websites to account, Peter?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 I think there is room for it but no one\u2019s been able to execute it, as we all know, Kevin. A lot of heavy hitters have tried to be the third player in this space, and the industry at large has attempted to do so.<br \/>\nAt the end of the day, the value or lack of in a real estate portal is the amount of traffic that it gets, and if real estate agents continue to put all of their listings on websites that then come back and charge them excessive fees, naturally that\u2019s where the home buyers and home sellers are going to do their business.<br \/>\nAs I say, as opposed to a third party coming into the marketplace, so far, we\u2019ve seen this growth of off-market transactions across the industry, and that will only increase, in my view, going forward.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Could you give me an example of what you mean by these off-market trades?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 Sure. A home seller interviews four or five agents. All of the agents inspect the home, they price the home, the owner agrees with the pricing strategy, and then the agent says to themselves, \u201cI may or may not win this listing, but even if I don\u2019t win this listing, I have a fairly good idea of who\u2019s going to buy this property.<br \/>\n\u201cSo instead of trying to convince the home seller to spend $3000 to go on these media websites to advertise the home to a buyer I already know of, I\u2019m going to cut all of that out and ask for a 24-hour or a 48-hour agency agreement from the vendor to run one or two hand-picked buyers, if you like, through the home who are very likely to make an offer,\u201d because you know that they\u2019ve missed out at three or four auctions already and they\u2019re desperate to buy.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b> \u00a0Agents have been spending a lot of time building their databases and they\u2019re getting very, very good with some of the CRM programs. They\u2019re able to identify who these buyers are because they\u2019re coming into contact with them long before they used to. Database marketing certainly has to be a great opportunity for sellers to sell at a very low cost.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s right. When I first started in the industry, Kevin, it was the old three-by-five cards, the hand-written notes on everything. The sophistication of the CRMs that are in the real estate industry now means that home owners don\u2019t need to spend thousands and thousands of dollars advertising their house in a replicated fashion to the days of newspaper. The good real estate agents in this industry do nurture their data and can produce a buyer without any cost or risk to the home seller, and that\u2019s something that I applaud.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s a great question for a consumer to ask an agent: \u201cTell me about your database. How does it work? How confident are you that you will have the buyer on there?\u201d And this should be one of the key questions consumers ask agents before they list with them.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 That is a key interview question during the process of hiring an estate agent: \u201cHow do you find buyers, and can you produce buyers without me having to put my hand in my pocket to find a buyer for the home?\u201d<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Tell me about silent auctions because I know that you\u2019re a pioneer of this concept. How does it work?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 Silent auctions is a closed bidding process, Kevin. While we like the fact that an appropriately used deadline can put pressure on the buyers, while we know that when one buyer knows they\u2019re in competition with several other buyers, that will drive their energy and their fear of missing out towards the subject property, one of the things that I like about the silent auction is that each party needs to produce their best, highest, and final offer without ever knowing what any of the other bids are.<br \/>\nAcross Sydney even during the boom \u2013 and I talk about this in the book \u2013 a lot of auctions turned into a series of $1000 bids over $100,000 to $200,000. That\u2019s a very painful experience to watch, and at the end of the day, while the property sells and it sells above the reserve, I\u2019m not always convinced that it does sell for the winning bidder\u2019s highest possible price.<br \/>\nWe see on average in our silent auctions, Kevin, a spread somewhere between 4% and 6% between what the top bidder pays and the second best bidder pays.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Peter, I want to take you to another part of your book <i>Inside<\/i> <i>Real<\/i> <i>Estate<\/i> \u2013 which, as I said, has been written by Peter O\u2019Malley who I\u2019m talking to. It\u2019s published by Wiley. And available at most bookshops, Peter, is it?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes indeed, Kevin, nationally.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Is there a website we can go to if we want to get hold of it?<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019m sending people to the Dymocks website. They\u2019re doing a good job of processing orders at the moment.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Very good. I\u2019ll take you to page 113, chapter 35: <i>Protecting Yourself from Conditioning.<\/i> Let me read the definition that you have in there because I think it\u2019s quite appropriate: \u201cIt\u2019s a systematic process employed by real estate agents for communicating bad or negative news to the vendors to drive down their price expectations after the agent has received the listing.<br \/>\nConditioning or crunching are terrible terms that were used in the industry many, many years ago. A very bad practice. Probably one of the most common complaints I get about \u201cHow I listed my house, the agent said they loved it, and now they\u2019re telling me all the bad points about it.\u201d<br \/>\nIt\u2019s a bad part of the industry, Peter.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 It is. What it comes back to again, Kevin, is the interview process where the home seller inadvertently and mistakenly selects their real estate agent on the price the agent thinks the home will sell for.<br \/>\nKevin, what I say to home sellers is unless the real estate agent is trying to buy your home, what they think your home is worth is largely irrelevant. You are employing an estate agent to negotiate on your behalf in the open marketplace.<br \/>\nWhat happens if you do select a real estate agent who over-eggs or over-promises on the expected sale price is that agent then has an over-priced listing by the time it comes on the market, and before that agent can get the home sold, they need to get the home owner\u2019s price down.<br \/>\nThey don\u2019t want to say, \u201cI got the price wrong. I apologize.\u201d What they will do is start being critical of the home and wrapping that criticism up in buyer feedback such as \u201cThe road is too busy. The bedrooms are too small. The back yard is south-facing.\u201d<br \/>\nThis is why it\u2019s a strong point to avoid being conditioned. The best way to do so is to avoid selecting your real estate agent on the price they quote for your home and instead, assess them on other issues, such as their experience, their clearance rates, their database, their fiduciary duty in the negotiations. They\u2019re the sorts of factors that will deliver you the right real estate agent when it comes time to hire one.<br \/>\n<b>Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Great talking to you. Peter O\u2019Malley has been my guest. Peter\u2019s book is simply called <i>Inside<\/i> <i>Real<\/i> <i>Estate<\/i>. Dymocks is the place where you\u2019re going to find it. Go online. You can check it out there.<br \/>\nPete, thank you very much for your time. Congratulations on the book, and I look forward to talking to you again real soon.<br \/>\n<b>Peter:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks very much, Kevin.<br \/>\n&nbsp;<br \/>\n&nbsp;<br \/>\n&nbsp;<br \/>\n&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Highlights from this week: The good points about interest-only borrowing The downsides and should there be a combination of interest only and P &amp; I The most expensive country in the world to get a property on the internet is Australia Are auction results a&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":12410,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-12407","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.7 - 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