{"id":11562,"date":"2017-05-10T03:00:55","date_gmt":"2017-05-09T17:00:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=11562"},"modified":"2017-05-10T03:00:55","modified_gmt":"2017-05-09T17:00:55","slug":"small-property-development-101-nhan-nguyen-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/small-property-development-101-nhan-nguyen-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Small property development 101 \u2013 Nhan Nguyen (Part 1)"},"content":{"rendered":"

Property investor Nhan Nguyen<\/strong> talks about his system for making a good living from property in both in the long and short term.\u00a0 In a two-part interview, we explore finding the best deal, some tips about what to allow for with small developments, how to develop a formulae that will increase your chances of success and how to unearth the hidden property nuggets.
\nTranscript:<\/strong>
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 My featured guest this week is Nhan Nguyen. While studying a bachelor of science at university, Nhan read\u00a0Rich Dad, Poor Dad\u00a0<\/i>by Robert Kiyosaki \u2013 I guess a lot of people can trace their early starts back to that book as well \u2013 and from that moment, his grades started to decline as his passion for property really started to emerge. His biggest learning from the book was don\u2019t work for money; have money work for you.
\nAfter university, Nhan took a role with a property education company, where he received a real education, learning how to do deals, qualify leads, and look for opportunities. Nhan also learned how to tie up opportunities with little money \u2013 and you\u2019re going to be fascinated when we talk about some of the ways that he does that \u2013 and then on-sell the properties at significant profit.
\nThen at the age of 23, Nhan quit working for someone else, and in December 2003, he moved into full-time investing, which is when he established Advanced Property Strategies. He\u2019s now done more than 100 deals worth $30 million in total in the past 24 months alone. He\u2019s done 29 property transactions just over the last two years using none of his own money. He tells us how he does that. Nhan is also the founder of Green Mint Property Group, focusing on property investment and development. He is my guest and joins us.
\nNhan, lovely to have you in the studio.
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here and join you.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 There\u2019s so much we can learn from you and your experiences over the years, and I have interviewed you on a few occasions. The first question I want to ask you, Nhan, we all know that property is cyclical, but is this the time to hold property, or can you actually make good money out of buying it, doing something with it, and then flicking it over?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. That\u2019s a question I get all the time. I suppose it really depends on what city you\u2019re in, because every city has a different time in the market. We talk about the property clock. I\u2019ve been reading recent valuer\u2019s reports and some cities are about to peak, some cities are about to come out of the doldrums there.
\nI was reading about Perth. They were talking about how the market is close to the bottom and potentially coming up. Townsville is another place that\u2019s really, really flat and with the potential to come up as well.
\nI believe that buying and holding versus developing has two parts to it. Holding is if you think there\u2019s a bright future in the marketplace, definitely. In the Brisbane marketplace \u2013 which I\u2019m very, very heavily invested in \u2013 I know that we\u2019ve had a good run for three to four years now. I\u2019m looking at selling a few of my properties just to take my money in so that I can do other things with it. Sometimes other people look at selling if they want to get the capital back and reuse the debt, because one of the things that people get stuck on is serviceability and they can\u2019t borrow more.
\nSo, considerations are threefold. One is where are you in the marketplace and the timing? Two, can you use that capital for other things? And three, do you have a serviceability issue, or can you borrow some more or not? Potentially thinking about it that way.
\nDevelopment is always prolific. There are always times and opportunities to make money through development.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You said reusing your debt; is that what you look at? Do you look at pulling the debt out of one part of your portfolio and looking at another area where you may be able to gear it a lot higher? Is that what you\u2019re talking about?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, what I mean by that is let\u2019s say you own a property and it\u2019s worth $800,000, and you owe $500,000 on that and you have $300,000 in equity. If you sell that property down, it allows you to go back to the bank and borrow another $500,000. Most people might have a limit of $1.5 to $2 million worth of borrowing. So what I mean is being able to use that leverage into another property that may give you a better return because you\u2019re buying in at a better price.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 But there are times when I guess you\u2019d hold on to that property and use the equity \u2013 you have that $300,000 \u2013 and gear against that. How are the banks looking at that, and what sort of gearing can you get out of, say, a $300,000 lump of equity?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 That\u2019s right. Generally the banks at the moment, on an investment level, they\u2019re looking around about the 80% loan-to-value ratio, or LVR as they call it. With that, let\u2019s say the property is once again worth $800,000, you go 80% against that, which is $640,000, and you already owe $500,000; you can pull out roughly $140,000 on that to buy another property.
\nI do believe, however, in not always gearing up in refinancing, simply because that $140,000 is still debt, as opposed to selling some of your portfolio down and keeping some. So I\u2019d talk about selling some, keeping some, and not necessarily selling everything and not necessarily holding everything.
\nThey talk about buy and hold which is\u00a0a<\/i>\u00a0strategy, but some people apply that as the only strategy, which I think can be dangerous, simply because the more property you buy and hold, you have an exposure to debt. If interest rates go up \u2013 which they have been, especially for investors in the last three to six months with some of the interest rate rises \u2013 you can be exposed.
\nYes, it\u2019s a balancing act, and it depends on what your outcomes are as well.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, because if you are gearing that high, of course, you\u2019re going to be relying a lot on negative gearing, and with so much talk about the\u00a0possibility<\/i>\u00a0of some changes to negative gearing, you\u2019re going to be highly exposed, I would have thought.
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, exactly. One of the things Warren Buffett often talks about is buying, holding, and never selling. I believe that in an environment where you have debt\u2026 Berkshire Hathaway, they don\u2019t have debt; they basically have investors, and it\u2019s all capital, it\u2019s all cash.
\nIn a business or in a project where you have debt, it\u2019s a balance between selling some and holding some, and using that money to make it work for you and not just gearing up, because property is capital-intensive and you will run out of either serviceability at one stage or you\u2019ll run out of capital at another stage because you\u2019re just all in. Every time you buy a property, property is very capital intensive.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Have you got a benchmark for your loan-to-value ratio in your portfolio? Is there a level you like to maybe not exceed?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely. When I was starting out and I bought my first property, I didn\u2019t have a lot of cash, a lot of equity, so I borrowed as much as I could \u2013 95%, 97%. These days when I\u2019m buying property, I\u2019ll go to the bank and we might borrow 80% just to get into the deal and we\u2019re not paying lenders\u2019 mortgage insurance. It\u2019s not because of anything other than it\u2019s an expense that I believe that if you have enough capital, it\u2019s unnecessary.
\nIn my portfolio, sometimes we\u2019ll push 50% or 60%. As your wealth grows and you have more equity and more cash and more cash flow, it\u2019ll pay itself down. Sometimes it\u2019s lower, sometimes it\u2019s higher, just depending on the project.
\nI did a land subdivision in 2015 where the bank was going to lend us $1.8 million. The valuation came in, I think, $3.4 million for the total project. That was just a little bit over 54% on the loan-to-value ratio.
\nSo it depends on the project and it depends on individual circumstances, but I prefer to keep my LVRs \u2013 or loan-to-value ratios \u2013 down, just because I don\u2019t want to be at the whim of interest rates when they go up.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Do you think this is the time to drive your LVRs lower?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Like I mentioned before, I personally think those three things are critical. The fourth thing might be in the time of your life. Some of you might be wanting to go into a retirement phase and want to capitalize and get your cash back so that you can spend that capital. I think LVRs are one of those things that is dynamic. I\u2019m not going to say definitely bring It down; I\u2019m just saying to manage your interest rates, because if they go up\u2026
\nBasically a big topic everyone like Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison are talking about is housing affordability and how they can bring that back and they banter back the negative gearing. If they basically hand-brake the negative gearing, that can affect the market terribly as it had in America. I think it was the late 1990s when they did that. They basically scrapped negative gearing, and the market just went into freefall.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 How do you go about finding the properties?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 One of the key sayings I use in my training is \u201cYou make your money when you buy, not when you sell.\u201d That can relate to when you\u2019re buying a house to live in, or an investment, or a development site. A key part of this is knowing what the market values are.
\nIf you\u2019re looking at buying a car and you know it\u2019s worth $20,000, how can you get that car for $12,000 or $15,000? People trade in their cars all the time at a wholesale value and then it gets sold at a retail value.
\nIt\u2019s the same thing with houses, and so if you\u2019re looking at buying a house and it might be worth $350,000, how can you get it for $300,000 to $320,000 so that you make your money when you buy?
\nThere are a handful of strategies that I use there. Firstly, I look for a motivated seller. I look for someone who\u2019s genuinely looking to sell quickly and might want to settle in 30 days, and I can help them move on that transaction but the house might need a bit of work. It might need a paint job or it might have some termites in it. So I\u2019m definitely looking for motivated sellers.
\nThe other thing is if I have to pay retail I look for what we call a free block of land. So it might have a big back yard, it might be on a corner block. One of the sites that I bought recently on the south side, about 16 kilometers out, is zoned for units and townhouses and the owner wasn\u2019t aware of that and he didn\u2019t really care. He just wanted to sell the property.
\nI bought the property and I cut it from a one into a two on a corner block. It\u2019s about a 600-square-meter block and you might think this is crazy, but I cut a 184-square-meter block off the corner there and I found a buyer for it.
\nMy point there is looking for either a motivated seller who wants to sell now and you can get it at a low price or you\u2019re looking for another upside, which is what we call the free block of land to add value \u2013 like a big back yard or cutting a block off.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 How do you find these people?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 There are a handful of ways to do that. One is you can talk to a real estate agent and tell them, \u201cI\u2019m looking for a deal. I\u2019m looking for an opportunity to develop. I\u2019m looking for a motivated seller.\u201d That\u2019s definitely one way. The other ways that we use are off-market, where you can door-knock, you can send flyers out, you can send letters out, to property owners directly. That is my preferred option, especially if the marketplace is hot.
\nI have clients in Sydney where you go to auctions and you get outbid all the time, but if you\u2019re approaching owners directly, you\u2019re not being outbid, you\u2019re not being out-negotiated or competing with other buyers. Those are a handful of ways.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0\u00a0 I imagine in that scenario, being a real estate agent and knowing that that\u2019s how they prospect, there are a lot of dry gullies, aren\u2019t there? You put a lot of flyers out there, send a lot of letters, you\u2019ll get some calls, people who are just interested in knowing what their house is worth. You obviously have to go down those dry gullies.
\nHave you ever thought about how many people you have to contact to actually get a deal?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely. As an example \u2013 and I\u2019ll give you some statistics here \u2013 in the last 12 months alone we sent out roughly a thousand letters and we\u2019ve purchased three properties, and we\u2019ve sold one of them. I made a quick $60,000 on that. The last two projects, we\u2019ve projected around about $250,000 to $290,000.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s a very good return on a thousand letters. Would that be because you really target the areas that you go to?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolutely. This is not just a blanket approach, because you\u2019d be sending out brochures or flyers to any Tom, Dick, or Harry, but really this is a targeted approach into targeted areas that we are experts on.
\nThat\u2019s the other part of it: when you\u2019re buying any property or any item, you need to become an area expert. You need to know your item or your zonings, you need to know whether there\u2019s flooding, is it too close to the train line, the noise corridors? There are so many aspects of it that you need to consider.
\nFor example, if you\u2019re looking to do renovations, you wouldn\u2019t go into a new suburb; you\u2019d go into an older suburb with a lot of Queenslanders or a lot of timber houses that potentially need a lot of work.
\nWe generally focus on a zoning called a low-to-medium residential, which has a lot more potential for unit and townhouse developments, and there\u2019s a lot of upside there, whereas there are a lot of people looking for double blocks out there \u2013 which is great \u2013 but I\u2019m looking for a different angle where I can add a duplex at the back, I can subdivide the blocks off smaller, I can potentially build a block of five to ten apartments in the future.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s very important what you say about becoming an expert in your local area \u2013 not only that but also understanding what those zonings are. That zoning you mentioned there may be applicable in one area, but if you\u2019re looking at even a different council area somewhere else in Australia, a different state, they\u2019re all very different. You have to become an expert in that area.
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Exactly. Like I mentioned before, I have a client in Sydney. She\u2019s looking at a zoning called R3, which is a multi-unit dwelling as well, and there are limitations there.
\nSo you need to become an area expert wherever you are \u2013 whichever city, whichever state.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 When you get a call from someone who receives one of your letters and they show some interest, what sort of conversation do you have with the owner? You mentioned there that you\u2019re trying to find out their motivation. Tell me about some of the conversations.
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Some of the conversations start with \u201cHave you tried to sell your house recently? Why are you returning my call? Have you tried to sell your house previously in the last 6 to 12 months? Is it rented?\u201d just to find out more about the owners themselves. Are they working? Are they looking to sell now? And then we slowly broach the aspect of price: \u201cHow much are you looking for?\u201d
\nOne of the things that we aim to do is test their motivation. We need to be able to see if it\u2019s worthwhile having a further conversation with them, and we ask \u201cWhy are you looking at selling? Are you looking at selling sooner rather than later?\u201d One of the other key questions we ask them is \u201cWhat\u2018s the least that you\u2019d consider?\u201d Basically it\u2019s a negotiation just like buying a car or selling anything else: \u201cWhat\u2019s the least that you would take?\u201d
\nAnd like you said before there, Kevin, 99% of the time they are dry gullies and we\u2019re not concerned about that; we\u2019re just looking for the diamond in the rough.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I imagine some of those dry gullies, too, would come to something at a future time. Do you keep in touch with some people?
\nNhan:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. I think it\u2019s very, very important not to think that just because you\u2019ve sent out a letter or had a door-knock and you\u2019re having a conversation with an owner that they\u2019ve said no. You have to get that it\u2019s just no for now and eventually, they have to sell. Like it or not like it, eventually we have to sell our properties because you\u2019ll move on at some stage \u2013 whether it\u2019s the next 10, 20, 30, or 50, years, the property is going to be transacted on.
\nWe had a recent transaction where we\u2019d spoken to them in February and they said, \u201cYes, we\u2019re keen to sell but we\u2019re not keen to sell now.\u201d It\u2019s very important that you ask the sellers that before they list with an agent and before they sell, just to give you a chance to have another go, have another quick conversation before they list on the market. You just want that first dibs. Once it hits the Internet or once it hits a real estate agent, it can be gone forever. All you want is the first dibs.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Nhan Nguyen is my guest from Advanced Property Strategies. We\u2019ll take a break and come back after that, and we\u2019ll talk more about becoming a property developer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Property investor Nhan Nguyen talks about his system for making a good living from property in both in the long and short term.\u00a0 In a two-part interview, we explore finding the best deal, some tips about what to allow for with small developments, how to…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":11567,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[33,10,11,13,35,36,25],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-11562","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-case-studies-topic","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-property-development-topic","category-property-investment-topic","category-sponsored-channels","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nSmall property development 101 \u2013 Nhan Nguyen (Part 1) - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/small-property-development-101-nhan-nguyen-part-1\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Small property development 101 \u2013 Nhan Nguyen (Part 1) - 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