{"id":11366,"date":"2017-04-17T03:00:31","date_gmt":"2017-04-16T17:00:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=11366"},"modified":"2017-04-17T03:00:31","modified_gmt":"2017-04-16T17:00:31","slug":"should-the-government-dump-negative-gearing-allan-mason","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/should-the-government-dump-negative-gearing-allan-mason\/","title":{"rendered":"Should the Government dump negative gearing? – Allan Mason"},"content":{"rendered":"

With so much talk about negative gearing and whether the Federal Government should support it or dump it, we seek the opinion of an accountant \u2013 Allan Mason<\/strong> – who once looked after the finances for one of Australasia\u2019s richest men. \u00a0You might be surprised at his response.
\nTranscript:<\/strong>
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 My next guest is Allan Mason. Allan is from Encore Accounting. We\u2019re going to talk about negative gearing. I can hear you almost groan, Allan, at the thought of \u201cOh, goodness, doesn\u2019t everyone know about negative gearing?\u201d But there is such a lot of talk about it, and I want to try and dig a little bit deeper with you, just to understand what it\u2019s about and whether it\u2019s a good or a bad thing.
\nFirstly, Allan, thank you for joining us on this show.
\nAllan: \u00a0<\/b>That\u2019s great, thank you. Thanks, Kevin. My pleasure.
\nKevin: \u00a0<\/b>Allan, tell me what is negative gearing?
\nAllan: \u00a0<\/b>Basically, negative gearing is where the word negative means that you\u2019re losing money, and you\u2019re losing money in the first few years of ownership, so your operating costs or your costs of running the property \u2013 interest, depreciation, agent\u2019s fees, maybe a few repairs \u2013 exceed the rent that you receive, so it\u2019s negative.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0\u00a0So negative gearing, when we hear about that, we firstly think about property, but negative gearing doesn\u2019t apply only to property, does it?
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0\u00a0Of course. In many, many cases, people buy a share portfolio. To buy that portfolio, they\u2019ll be paying interest on the money. The dividends they receive will not cover the interest that they pay, hence it\u2019ll be a negative.
\nThe reason people look at it is they want a negative so that they can offset their tax. If they\u2019re paying 45, 46 cents in the dollar tax, that negative means \u2013 to use a simple example \u2013 if they\u2019re losing $1000 a year, they\u2019re getting back $450 in their tax, so their loss is a little bit less.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>A number of the people that I talk to in this show \u2013 commentators and so on \u2013 they will actually say, \u201cLook, negative gearing is not a strategy; negative gearing is an outcome.\u201d Can you explain to me and to our audience just what that really means? And where do you stand on that debate?
\nAllan:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Well, it\u2019s an outcome because it\u2019s an outcome for that particular tax year, so that if you\u2019ve lost money on an investment \u2013 and we\u2019re talking a trading loss; we\u2019re not talking a capital loss \u2013 if you\u2019ve lost money during the year on your rental property, if the rent hasn\u2019t covered the cost of ownership, then you\u2019re obviously getting that back in your tax.
\nAnd remember, you don\u2019t pay 100 cents in the dollar tax, so any criticism by governments or by various people about negative gearing, a lot of it is unfounded because while you might get some sort of subsidy, you\u2019re not getting 100% back because nobody pays 100 cents in the dollar tax.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 There\u2019s been a lot of criticism, of course, about negative gearing, and it\u2019s always aimed at \u2013 I use the term in quotes \u2013 \u201cgreedy\u201d property investors who are gaining all these benefits. Is it really that bad, Allan?
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0 Definitely not. Most of our clients who own property, they\u2019re just moms and dads just like you and I. They have one or two investment properties, some have more, but they\u2019re certainly not greedy. They\u2019re trying to look after their future retirement, they\u2019re trying to buy assets that they hope by the time they retire will go up in value to a point that it will provide a pension for them, to give them income and not be receiving a pension or be part of the social welfare system.
\nCertainly, it\u2019s not greedy; it\u2019s just people looking after their own affairs and trying to do the best they can to do that without having to be getting a pension or dipping into Consolidated Revenue.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Allan, what are your thoughts about affordability of property? And once again, I know this is a far-reaching conversation we\u2019re trying to distill into a couple of minutes, but what are your thoughts on affordability for property for first-home buyers and so on? Is it all that unaffordable in Australia?
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s getting that way. It\u2019s getting harder. But I can tell you that when we look across our client base, there are many, many people who are making a lot of money, who are doing quite well in their business or outside of investments and they are looking for other types of investments to go into. So affordability, yes it\u2019s getting harder, but all that means is there\u2019s more future gain that can be had.
\nLet\u2019s look at affordability. I can remember that argument 20 years ago. People would say no one can ever afford to buy a house 20 years ago and prices now are three times what they were then, so I sometimes think it\u2019s a bit of a beat-up.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Could we also talk then about first-home buyers or home buyers not approaching it as an investment but more buying from the heart? In other words, they\u2019ll go out, they\u2019ll spend more than what they could probably afford, and then when interest rates do increase, they find that they can\u2019t afford to keep up those payments. Are they approaching it the wrong way? Should they in fact develop what I call an investor mindset?
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019ve always looked at a house as an investment and try to keep the personal side out of it. I know that when you go to live there and it\u2019s going to be something that you\u2019ll own for a long period of time \u2013 it would be your family home to bring your children up in \u2013 you can\u2019t be silly about it.
\nYou can\u2019t go taking too many loans to the point where if you become unemployed, you can\u2019t meet your commitments. You have to be sensible, you have to be savvy on your own income, how much you\u2019re earning, how much you can afford, and don\u2019t go outside that because the last thing you want is to have to sell if the property market goes down or if you get into a slump. You don\u2019t want to be selling at that point.
\nYou want to be able to hold, and hold to through any ups and downs. There will always be ups and downs, and if you don\u2019t have to sell, if it goes down or there\u2019s some sort of correction, you just wear it out, and you know it\u2019ll come back.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I\u2019ve read a little bit about you, your background, Allan. I know that you worked in the early days with Kerry Packer at Consolidated Press. There must have been some great lessons that you picked up from Kerry, because as the richest man in Australia, you would tend to think that he has plenty of cash to spray around, but was he really that prudent?
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0 Like any business person, he would certainly look at the profit and loss of any particular item projections. If we were going to him with an acquisition of some kind or a proposal, the numbers had to stack up.
\nAnd the numbers always have to stack up. In Consolidated Press \u2013 and any large company \u2013 we would do weekly figures. We would know weekly what our turnover, our expenses, our KPIs were, and if things were trending badly in a particular division, like maybe the snowfields\u2026 I remember\u00a060 Minutes<\/i>\u00a0was one of our first companies that were involved in. When we started to run that, it was losing money. It was losing money hand over fist, and I think World Series Cricket too was losing money. It\u2019s a case of monitoring it, managing it, making sure that you have enough money to cover all those ups and downs.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, great lessons. We\u2019ll get you back to talk a lot more about some of that history, but I wanted to specifically talk to you about negative gearing. You\u2019ve taken us through that quite nicely, Allan, and I want to thank you very much for joining us.
\nAllan is from a company called Encore Accounting. The website is called EncoreAccounting.com.au.
\nAllan, thanks for your time.
\nAllan:<\/b>\u00a0 Thank you, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

With so much talk about negative gearing and whether the Federal Government should support it or dump it, we seek the opinion of an accountant \u2013 Allan Mason – who once looked after the finances for one of Australasia\u2019s richest men. \u00a0You might be surprised…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":11384,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[32,34,10,11,13,36,22,25],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-11366","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-buying-a-property-topic","category-finance-topic","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-property-investment-topic","category-research-topic","category-sponsored-channels","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nShould the Government dump negative gearing? - Allan Mason - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/should-the-government-dump-negative-gearing-allan-mason\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Should the Government dump negative gearing? 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