{"id":10520,"date":"2017-02-17T13:00:50","date_gmt":"2017-02-17T02:00:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/realestatetalk.com.au\/?p=10520"},"modified":"2017-02-17T13:00:50","modified_gmt":"2017-02-17T02:00:50","slug":"property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\/","title":{"rendered":"Property industry leader talks about his mistakes + The future of property investing + Buyer beware of false reports"},"content":{"rendered":"

Property Industry leader Ben Kingsley<\/strong> is our feature guest this week as he talks about his earliest property investment lessons and how he nearly fell for a big mistake he now sees many investors make.\u00a0 Like so many of our past guests, Ben is very generous with the advice he gives which is drawn from his personal experiences.
\nA Melbourne start-up is capitalising on our love affair with auctions by developing an App to enable consumers to watch auctions either live or on demand from anywhere in the world.\u00a0 The App is called GAVL and with it a potential buyer can \u201cvirtually\u201d attend dozens of auctions across several states over a weekend. GAVL is the brainchild of Joel Smith<\/strong> who tells us about it today.
\nA recent survey by the Property Investment Professionals of Australia (P.I.P.A) revealed the many and varied sources investors consult for advice, but since most property investors fail to achieve the financial freedom they deserve, and with less than 8% ever owning more than 2 properties, a better question to ask would be\u2026Who should<\/i> <\/b>you ask for property investment advice?\u00a0 Michael Yardney<\/strong><\/a> helps with an answer to that question in the show.
\nKylie Davis<\/strong> from Core Logic is fresh back from the USA where she attended the worlds largest real estate conference that focuses on the future of real estate and she tells us where it is all headed and about some of the innovations that are on the way to make it easier and more transparent to transact property.
\nChanges to the real estate sector in NSW that came into effect mid-way through 2016, require real estate agents to disclose all reports taken out by a vendor or potential buyer \u2013 usually building, pest and survey reports.\u00a0 Conveyancer Garth Brown<\/strong> tells us now that this has led to some agents and vendors supplying false reports.
\n <\/p>\n

Transcripts:<\/strong><\/h4>\n

The real estate experience of the future – Kylie Davis<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s a conference in America that seems to attract 4000 to even 5000 real estate agents and real estate professionals from all around the world. It\u2019s called the Inman Conference. It\u2019s done a couple of times each year, and there\u2019s a lot of great information that comes out of it because it\u2019s like a meeting of the minds \u2013 where\u2019s the industry going, what\u2019s going to happen, how will it be shaped in the future?
\nKylie Davis from CoreLogic attended that conference. Kylie is the head of property services marketing at CoreLogic, and she joins as our guest to talk about some of the findings coming out of that.
\nKylie, thank you very much for your time.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Let\u2019s have a look at this, because we\u2019re going to talk about bots \u2013 which are robots \u2013 and virtual reality and lots of other things. What were some of the major takeaways for you from a consumer point of view as to how you see real estate changing in the future?
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>I think the main takeaway for consumers, for buyers and sellers, is that real estate is going to start to get easier and less stressful. But the tradeoff for that is that you\u2019re going to have to share your data with real estate agents.
\nWhat that means is that the algorithms and the artificial intelligence that\u2019s sitting behind a lot of the portals and behind a lot of our apps like Facebook are going to come together and start to help you find the perfect property or identify information that will help you find a great agent.
\nThen there are going to be places you can go that both help you understand what the process is and make it really clear and understand where you are in the process and what the next step is so that you get a lot more transparency around how the transaction is going.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Transparency is the key word, I think. As consumers, we\u2019re already experiencing some of this. There are some groups who are getting information or who have information that we don\u2019t even know they have in terms of who we are so that when we attend an open home, no longer do you have to give your name because it effectively comes straight off your phone.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, and I guess the information that comes off your phone then can be tied into other information that the agent might be aware of about you, which can then help them really help you. So, if you write down Donald Duck and a nonsense e-mail, there\u2019s no point complaining about getting rubbish service.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, because that\u2019s what it comes down to. It comes down to getting better service and allowing people to have a better understanding of you. But it goes even deeper than just agents getting this information, because if we\u2019re sharing it on social media, social media is picking up on the things that we do, what interests us, and they\u2019re reacting to that as well, Kylie.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. I\u2019m a big believer in that the universe is sort of directing me in this way, and I guess one of the insights that I came away from Inman was \u201cGosh, it\u2019s not the universe at all; it\u2019s actually just big data that\u2019s tracking what I\u2019m doing and then directing content to me based on my preferences.\u201d
\nWhat\u2019s going to happen very shortly is when you start to exhibit behavior that identifies you as a buyer or seller on your computer or inside Facebook \u2013 and we\u2019re already doing this \u2013 then you\u2019ll start to see content around that space. That might be ads for companies that are active in that space, or you might suddenly start to see articles appearing in your feed about how to find the perfect house or \u201cSeven properties with swimming pools.\u201d
\nInformation that is somehow tied a little bit to your search will start to pop up in your feed, and the purpose of that is to make it easy for you to find information that\u2019s useful and to provide information that\u2019s useful that will help you in that journey.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>One of the other advancements we\u2019ve seen in recent times is virtual reality, and that\u2019s becoming the reality \u2013 not virtual anymore; it is a reality \u2013 helping us make decisions about properties that we may want to buy.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>I think one of the biggest complaints that buyers have is that wasted time of seeing a property online or seeing a property in the paper and thinking, \u201cOh, that looks fantastic. I really want to go and look at that,\u201d and then when they see it in reality going, \u201cThe way the bedrooms are set out is horrible, the way it flows into the kitchen. I thought it was bigger, and actually the photos make it look much bigger than it is. It\u2019s actually quite small.\u201d
\nBut virtual reality allows you \u2013 from the comfort of your own home \u2013 to walk through that house or that property and really examine the features, to feel the flow, to get a sense of how big the rooms are, and to get a feel of the setting of the property \u2013 so which way it\u2019s angled, what the street is like outside, if there\u2019s an ocean view or something \u2013 to actually see what that looks like, even if the property hasn\u2019t necessarily been built.
\nIt gives you a much better idea as to whether it should be on your selection list to then go and see in reality, or it makes it easier to cross things off.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>One of the great advantages in virtual reality for agents is that they don\u2019t have to make a decision about what are going to be the points of a property that will interest a buyer, because virtual reality takes care of that.
\nIn other words, an agent making a decision that the city view is the thing that\u2019s going to turn most people on when it probably won\u2019t. But if that\u2019s not something that you enjoy, looking at it in virtual reality, you\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, that doesn\u2019t really turn me on, but I love the size of the kitchen,\u201d as an example.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, and I guess agents will still sort of have to pick features to promote, but what it will allow you to do is if you\u2019re interested in the kitchen benchtops or you want to really check out whether the appliances are Miele or Gaggenau, or you really want to examine the marble to see what it looks like, you can go into detail and really examine things quite closely.
\nAnd you can choose which things you want to look at. It is like being at an open for inspection and being able to really poke things without having to actually get in the car and go.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, we identified earlier in our chats how important transparency is going to be. I was fascinated. You were talking about Transaction Rooms. Tell me how they\u2019re working.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Transaction Rooms are a secure place online or in the Cloud where all of the documents pertinent to the sale \u2013 which might be the contract, it might be any building and pest inspection reports, it might be anything that you need to make the sale go ahead \u2013 are all in one safe, secure place, and the people who need to sign off on that information or sign off on those contracts are invited and allowed to see the parts of the transaction that are pertinent to them.
\nThe outcome of that is that the buyer and the seller \u2013 on both sides of the transaction \u2013 have a really clear understanding of what stage the transaction is up to, what has to be done next, who has to do it, where the holdups might be. It makes that horrible period of settlement a lot smoother and easier to get sorted.
\nYou don\u2019t have to e-mail people whopping great contracts as PDFs and find out that the e-mail never turned up because the file size was too big. E-mailing things on contracts is always dangerous for security reasons anyway.
\nIf one of the parties is overseas, you can get signatures without having to wait for them to come home or to find a place to go and sign off. Everything can be done regardless of where anyone is.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, anything that makes buying and selling real estate easier has to be fantastic. Kylie, it\u2019s been great talking to you. Thank you so much. Kylie Davis has been my guest. Kylie is the head of property services marketing and content at CoreLogic.
\nThank you, Kylie. Great talking to you. Thanks for your time.
\nKylie:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin. Lovely to speak to you.
\n <\/p>\n

New App to help auction buyers – Joel Smith<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>One of the most common questions we\u2019re asked is \u201cHow do I get on with auction? What really happens with auction?\u201d Getting around of them can be quite tortuous. I\u2019m going to tell you now about a new app that\u2019s just been created by a company called GAVL. The CEO for GAVL, Joel Smith, joins me.
\nJoel, tell me about the app and what will it do and why have you introduced it?
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me on your show. The app really came out of a need for consumers, I guess. A work colleague of mine was in house-hunting mode, and he couldn\u2019t be in two places at the one time. He\u2019s based down in Melbourne and for whatever reason, most of the auctions in Melbourne are on at 11:00, 12:00, and 1:00. He found it hard physically getting around all the auctions at one time. It was that 21st century question, why isn\u2019t there an app for this? So, we set about a task of developing one.
\nWe found that the key or the secret or the reason there hadn\u2019t been one before is that the issue was mobile-based broadcasting technology. There\u2019s quite a delay in the technology \u2013 upwards of 10 or 15 seconds \u2013 and with the real estate, you can\u2019t afford to have even a one- or a two-second delay.
\nWe set about rectifying that problem and we built our own livestreaming technology in which we got the delay down to one second, which we think in any one\u2019s language is live, and then set about building an application that allowed real estate agents to broadcast their core product, which is an auction, to a greater audience.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Now, with this, Joel, is someone able then to bid online. If they\u2019re not there, are they able to bid through the app?
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s not bidding at the moment. But we will build features that will allow an agent the ability to talk to a buyer and communicate bids. As we know, at auctions, a similar process already happens, where you can have a buyer on a phone communicating their bids verbally to an agent or an advocate. In the same way, they\u2019ll be able to communicate to an agent, but this time digitally, while being able to watch.
\nWhat we\u2019ll be able to do to is we\u2019ve just built what we call a bid-capturing technology. We\u2019ve digitized the penciller\u2019s role, and now, we\u2019re able to overlay the bids over the screen. We have an in-built currency converter especially for the Chinese buyer and also some other interactive features where their agent is able to engage their buyers.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>You\u2019d need to tee this up with the agent so that you can actually watch it, wouldn\u2019t you? There has to be someone at the other end?
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, the technology has been built that it will all be done by the agent. It\u2019s quite a simple setup. It\u2019s all mobile phone-based streaming technology. The one constant at every auction is the agent, and we all know they have a mobile phone. It\u2019s literally a 10-second job to set a tripod up, mobile phone on the tripod, two presses of a button, and they\u2019re live streaming.
\nFrom a consumer\u2019s end, they just download the app or they can jump on a PC computer if they have time. Literally download the app, search through our app. The app\u2019s been built in a similar way to an REA or a Domain, where agents upload all their properties, all the photos, property details. A consumer can search, shortlist, and they\u2019ll get a notification when the auction goes live. And they can sit there and watch.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Okay. How do we get a hold of the app, Joel?
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>Just in the app store. We have released the app for the iOS. It\u2019s new with Apple. The Android app has been released, so Google Play. If you don\u2019t have one of those phones, you can obviously jump on and watch it on the website.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. It\u2019s aptly known too, GAVL \u2013 as in auctioneer\u2019s gavel. Very easy to remember and very catchy name too, Joel.
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. We were quite surprised when it comes to the challenge of picking names when you try and find something short and catchy. We thought we\u2019d have a little bit of a play on words there with the GAVL, and the feedback, so far, it\u2019s been very good.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes. Certainly anything that\u2019s going to increase transparency for auctions and get the word out there about auctions to get more people participating is something we\u2019d certainly support. The app is called GAVL. Already 500,000 auctions have been viewed, so it\u2019s well and truly underway.
\nJoel, thanks for your time today. Also, congratulations on the move. I think it\u2019s fantastic. Well done.
\nJoel:\u00a0 <\/b>Thank you, Kevin.
\n <\/p>\n

Who SHOULD you ask for advice? – Michael Yardney<\/a><\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0 <\/b>There\u2019s a recent survey done by PIPA, the Property Investment Professionals of Australia. They asked the question about who do you ask for property advice? Well, with so many property investors not necessarily succeeding at their portfolio, maybe we should ask the question who should<\/i> you ask for property investment advice? That\u2019s the question I want to pose now to Michael Yardney<\/a> from Metropole Property Strategists<\/a>.
\nGood day, Michael.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Hello, Kevin. That\u2019s a good question, because there are so many different people you can turn to. Sometimes, it\u2019s confusing.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I was going to say you\u2019ll probably say, \u201cWell, they should ask me.\u201d
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Well, yes, that\u2019s a good point, isn\u2019t it? They could, or somebody who\u2019s a professional advisor. Maybe we could have a look at the various options of who they could<\/i> ask, and we\u2019ll end up with who they should<\/i> ask. Would that be okay?
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, fantastic. So, who?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>One of the first places to start is what some people do is actually not ask anybody. They think they know a bit about property because they\u2019ve lived in their house or they\u2019ve rented before. That\u2019s a big mistake, and probably one of the reason why \u2013 I don\u2019t know \u2013 about 50% of people who buy their first investment sell up within the first five years.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>The next one no doubt is friends and family. That could be a bit of a mistake, couldn\u2019t it?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>I understand why you\u2019d do that, but the question is are they really financial experts? How many millionaires do you have in your family? If not, don\u2019t ask them, because you\u2019re probably going to find their advice will be to avoid property investment because they\u2019re going to think it\u2019s risky.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>The point that I would make, too, is that most friends and families feel that they should try and talk you out of most things for fear of you making a mistake.
\nMichael, what about a real estate agent?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Remember, real estate agents work for the vendor. It\u2019s their job to help the vendor \u2013 the seller \u2013 achieve the best price, so they\u2019re unlikely to tell you about other good properties down the road that another agent has for sale. So no, I wouldn\u2019t be asking a real estate agent advice, remembering that most don\u2019t own investment properties themselves.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>What about mortgage brokers?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>I know a lot of people do ask their mortgage broker for advice, and it is really important to have an investment savvy broker as part of your team. But that\u2019s more to help you through <\/b>the maze of finance, because most don\u2019t understand the property market well enough to advise on what\u2019s an investment-grade property.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I guess an accountant is a good person to turn to, but are they the best for property investment advice, Michael?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Again, they\u2019re meant to be part of your team \u2013 that\u2019s important \u2013 but most accountants should stick to advising on tax matters and structuring, but leave the property side to other people.
\nIn fact, I found a lot of accountants are aligned with developers and project marketers and end up getting reasonably high commissions for theoretically advising you but in fact, pointing you in a direction.
\nIt\u2019s much the same with financial planners. While they\u2019re licensed to sell financial products, most aren\u2019t able to advise on real estate, and those that do end up getting\u2026 Look, I got an e-mail only two days ago from a large developer suggesting they\u2019d give me 9% commission on a development to recommend to our clients. Of course, we don\u2019t do that.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>No. We\u2019d have to put property marketers into this list, but you\u2019d certainly never rely on their advice, I wouldn\u2019t imagine.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>The problem is that some property marketers seem like they\u2019re salespeople working on your side when in fact they really are selling a product of a developer. That\u2019s their job and they get paid by the developer to do it, so it\u2019s not independent or unbiased.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>We get a lot of questions from people saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to an investment seminar or a workshop.\u201d Is this a good area to get that type of independent advice?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>I have to make a disclosure: I do those once a year, and you therefore have to ask yourself \u201cIs the person who\u2019s conducting the event an expert in their field? How long have they been financially secure? Or do they make their money out of teaching people rather than by doing it themselves?\u201d
\nSo, there are opportunities, but like with everything else, you have to choose your advisors, your mentors carefully.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>And I guess if you do go to one of those seminars or workshops, just be very careful if they\u2019re actually promoting any real product on the day, as well.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Exactly. If they have a property to sign at the back of the room, then you should run away.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>And property mentors? They\u2019re fairly new on the scene.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>I have always \u2013 well, over the last 20 years or so \u2013 relied on mentors and coaches. I firmly believe in mentoring, and I\u2019ve mentored over 2000 people, but currently there seems to be an abundance of property mentors around, some of whom actually give really great guidance while others are really property sellers or marketers in disguise.
\nSo, I believe it\u2019s important to have mentors because they see your blind spots, they give you guidance, they support you. Just make sure they\u2019re a true mentor and not somebody selling property.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Yes, because on this show, Michael, we talk to all of the people we\u2019re talking about here, and they all have different levels of advice. Even buyer\u2019s agents, as well. Are they worth talking to?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Of course, they are. They can be a great help in selecting the right property, but again, some of them are just what I\u2019d call order takers. They don\u2019t devise a plan that takes into account your own personal and your family\u2019s future, your needs, your risks, your risk profile.
\nAnd most buyer\u2019s agents are only good in their area. I\u2019m not running them down and calling them order takers because they\u2019re very good in that group of suburbs they\u2019re familiar with, but they won\u2019t know the other city or the other state.
\nIn my mind, that\u2019s why you need somebody who\u2019s going to coordinate all those, and that\u2019s a property strategist. I believe it\u2019s critical to have a trusted advisor when making investment decisions. It\u2019s just too hard to do it on your own. You can do it by trial and error, but there\u2019s a huge learning fee involved in that \u2013 of time, of money, of effort, of heartache.
\nKevin, I\u2019ve actually found that most wealthy people have \u2013 and they\u2019re actually prepared to pay for \u2013 trusted advisors in many areas of their life, while an average person has no advisors or they get their advice from salespeople who they believe are advisors but they are far from independent.
\nIf you want to become wealthy, do what the wealthy people do: take a bit of advice.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Help me here now, because just very quickly we\u2019ve covered across a number of people: friends and family, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, accountants, financial planners, property marketers, investment seminars and workshops, property mentors, as well as buyer\u2019s agents. You\u2019ve mentioned there about property strategists. It\u2019s no wonder people get confused.
\nHow can we tell if we\u2019re actually dealing with a trusted advisor?
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Good question, Kevin. It is hard to tell, because they all come across meaning well. A trusted advisor in my mind tailors their recommendations to your personal circumstances and will also warn you about the risks as well as the rewards.
\nSo, their advice isn\u2019t biased to a property, to a product, to a service that they\u2019re selling, or in fact to a specific state. Because if all they can advise you on is Brisbane or Perth or Darwin or Sydney or Melbourne even, it may be right today but it may not be in the long term.
\nOne of the first questions you should ask is \u201cHow are you getting paid?\u201d because this is actually going to reveal a lot. If you\u2019re offering services for free, are they being paid by a third party like the developer or the seller? Their advice can\u2019t be independent.
\nYour advisor should also be qualified. They should be a member of a recognized organization, maybe like PIPA that we discussed before. They should have a thorough understanding not just of property; they really have to be a holistic advisor understanding finance, economics, the tax system, at least in relation to how it relates to real estate.
\nThe other big thing is your advisor should have no properties for sale but should have a number of investment options for you depending on your circumstances. The other thing is they shouldn\u2019t be pushing you. There shouldn\u2019t be a sense of urgency to it, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>I guess the bottom line, Michael, is that there are just so many things that you can learn from financial media, books, seminars to really gain that good knowledge. You have to work with those trusted advisors and try to help them work you through all of that information.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Sure, because you can get knowledge from all those things you mentioned \u2013 the books, the seminars, the Internet \u2013 but what you can\u2019t get from that is experience. And that\u2019s what you\u2019re paying for, Kevin. That takes years to acquire and it comes at a cost, but it actually minimizes your risks.
\nIt\u2019s just too difficult for beginners, and in today\u2019s environment, even for more experienced investors to gain the perspective of what\u2019s happening in our markets as they\u2019re moving so fast. So, why not leverage an experienced professional advisor \u2013 a property strategist, one who\u2019s independent?
\nIn my experience, Kevin, professional advice is never expensive. On the other hand, most investors pay a huge learning fee to the market by buying the wrong property or in the wrong location or paying too much for it.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>Well said, Michael. Thanks again for your time. Michael Yardney<\/a> from Metropole Property Strategists<\/a>. Michael, your blog carries a lot of good information, as well.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>PropertyUpdate.com.au. Thank you, Kevin.
\nKevin:\u00a0 <\/b>It\u2019s a pleasure, mate. We\u2019ll talk to you again soon. Thank you.
\nMichael:\u00a0 <\/b>Bye.
\n <\/p>\n

Property Industry Leader talks about his mistakes – Ben Kingsley<\/h2>\n

Kevin:<\/b>\u00a0 My featured guest this week is Ben Kingsley. Ben is the CEO and founder of Empower Wealth, and you might even know of him on his very popular podcast, which is called the Property Couch. He joins me.
\nLovely to be talking to you, Ben. Thanks very much for your time.
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Absolute pleasure, Kevin.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Let me ask you firstly, you\u2019re a luminary in the area of property investment. I believe you\u2019re also the chair of PIPA. Is that right?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s right. This industry is a growing industry. There are plenty of sharks out there, and so to be part of the peak association and to be able to help set the agenda in how we improve the professional standards of people operating and how they look after consumers is really important to me. It\u2019s just nice to be able to give back in that respect.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 A lot of leading lights on PIPA, as well. PIPA stands for\u2026?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Property Investment Professionals of Australia. There is some real talent on there. You have Margaret Lomas, you have Damian Collins, you have Steve Waters, Phillip Tarrant, David McMillan, all of the greats, the Property Professor Peter Koulizos, just some real talented people who care about how consumers are looked after.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Of course, we\u2019re very happy to support you, too, in that endeavor and I think we\u2019ve spoken to most of those people. But, mate, I\u2019m particularly interested in talking to you, Ben, about your journey and what you\u2019ve learned along the way. Tell me about how you first got involved in property investment.
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 From a young age, I was always interested in being in a position where I could make sure that I was creating some wealth so that I could have the sort of lifestyle that I was looking for. I was brought up in a middle-class household, a hard-working father, and from that point of view, I saw that he did three jobs for 37 years and made some investments \u2013 some good ones and some bad ones and some that didn\u2019t deliver on what he was looking for. That meant that he obviously had to work those extra jobs to hit the target he was looking at.
\nFor me, it was very much around how could I be smarter and be more educated? I wanted to make sure that I controlled the money as opposed to it controlling me. I didn\u2019t want to be in a household where it changed the mood in terms of how much money we had to look after ourselves.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 We learn a lot of lessons from our parents and how they operated. I know it was a different generation, but it also I guess reminds us as parents the impact that we have on our own children and the lasting memories we can give them as well, Ben.
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Totally, Kevin. I think it\u2019s really important that we have to be the role models. We don\u2019t fall too far from the tree, as they say. For all of those people who grew up in challenging households, they have to try and break the mold.
\nFor me, I didn\u2019t grow up in a challenging household; I grew up in a very loving household, but I also knew that where every dollar was spent was closely watched. I just wanted to make sure that there was enough to go around for everyone to be able to do what they wanted to do and to enjoy the things that we all enjoy.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 What was your first property deal? How old were you when you did it, Ben?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 I was 23. Again, I started quite young. I bought the house across the road from mom and dad. I lived in a great little court in the northern suburbs of Bunburra. I got a $10,000 inheritance from my grandfather. One of my grandfathers passed. It was that as well as I did a lot of part-time work in school holidays and so forth. As I was also in college or uni, I then was able to be in a position to secure that first property. I paid $120,000 for a three-bedroom AVJennings home in the outer suburbs of Melbourne, really not having a clue what I was doing.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Was it a new property?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 No. It was an existing property. It basically went to auction and I paid $120,000 for it.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Your parents were living across the road at the time, were they?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, it was perfect. I could go home and have a nice feed with mom and borrow the old man\u2019s lawn mower. It worked out quite well, but I did move into the property for a while there.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 So you bought it as a principal place of residence not as an investment?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. I originally bought it as a principal place of residence, but it was always tagged to be an investment property. The reason I think, going back, there might have been some type of concession. Certainly, the interest rate was cheaper if you had an owner-occupied property. But I only lived at the property for probably just on about nine months before I moved interstate to start my career in tourism.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Do you still own that property?
\nBen:\u00a0 <\/b>No. That one\u2026 Coming to mistakes, that\u2019s a cracker. I moved to the tourism industry and found myself working in Sydney. I went and saw an accountant who had some so-called property knowledge. I sat down with him and said, \u201cLook, this is the property I have. This is the income I\u2019m earning. What can we do here?\u201d And he said, \u201cOh, gee. That\u2019s cash flow positive. We need to sell that property and we need to get a deposit and buy one of these great off-the-plan properties here in Sydney. You\u2019ll be well-served in doing that.\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Oh, no. Goodness.
\nBenefit:<\/b>\u00a0 As an inexperienced person at that time, I\u2019m like, \u201cAll right.\u201d I\u2019m supposedly talking to someone who\u2019s in the know, and it was definitely the worst decision I think I made from a property investment point of view.
\nI think right now it\u2019s probably sitting at about a $550,000 mistake, and each year, that I don\u2019t own that property it\u2019s growing, whereas I could have quite easily released the equity out of the property in the time that I owned it an done a little cosmetic reno as well.
\nThere was a lot wrong with that, but it goes to show you when you don\u2019t know what you don\u2019t know, you can be easily led by the wrong people.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes, a lot of lessons inside that, of course. Going on to your second property, did you actually buy something off the plan? Did you follow that advice?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Luckily, I didn\u2019t. By that stage I\u2019d gotten myself into a real interest in what I was doing and hence I was reaching out to a lot of people, going along to a lot of events. I went to hear John Edwards speak and went and heard Ed Chan speak. Also a few of the spruikers out there, I went along to a few of their seminars. You were starting to sort out the wheat from the chaff, as they say. API<\/i> magazine at the time was maybe a year or two old and I was starting to consume that on a monthly basis.
\nFortunately, I didn\u2019t follow the lead. I did look at and put a $1000 holding deposit on a two-bedroom apartment in Zetland <\/b>but decided against that one. Once I started to get an understanding of what I wanted to do and did pretty much six months of solid research, I bought a semi in Alexandria for $395,000 in 2001, and that property got bank valued four or five months ago at $1.3 million.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 I was going to ask you, you still own that one. You\u2019ve learnt that lesson, haven\u2019t you?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. Once I started to understand more about the drivers and the things I needed to understand \u2013 but that was through literally months and months of constant research. I had scrapbooks. This was pretty much pre-Internet period around RealEstate.com.au and I was scrapbooking all of the local newspapers and documenting what sold for what, trying to work out the technical valuations of things. So there was definitely a lot of research that went into that execution.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Was that the best deal you\u2019ve ever done?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 It\u2019s up there. I have quite a few like that. I replicated the same type of thing in Flemington in 2005 for $395,000. Again, a beautiful weatherboard two-bedroom, fully renovated property in an area that\u2019s significantly gentrified since then. I suspect a bank valuation around $850,000 on that property now. That\u2019s sitting very nicely.
\nThe GFC period, Moonee Ponds, passed in auction right on the GFC at $1,050,000, and I picked that one up for $913,000. I\u2019ve renovated that one, and that one\u2019s become our principal home now. That would probably be sitting around $1.3 to $1.4 million unrenovated.
\nThe years of experience and the 10,000 hours of education and knowledge-building that I\u2019ve done over the journey have obviously put me in good stead to know when good opportunities present themselves.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Have you done any developments at all?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 No. I\u2019ve kept away from that. I\u2019ve been pretty much a passive investor \u2013 a true what I would consider the traditional investor. If I were going to invest in shares, I\u2019m not having a say in what BHP is doing; I\u2019m just a passive investor. And with my property investments, it\u2019s been very similar.
\nI\u2019ve done very little work in regards to improving the assets. I haven\u2019t put new kitchens or new bathrooms or any of those sorts of things in. I\u2019ve just let them sit. They\u2019ll need a bit of a tidy up. There\u2019ll be the odd deck and the odd fence that needs repairing, but I haven\u2019t gone into that whole equity-harvesting and that whole development space.
\nIt\u2019s probably been because I\u2019ve been a bit time-poor but also because a true investment should stand up on its own principles. If I have to value-add to it, I\u2019m taking on more risk, so effectively I should be getting a lot more reward.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Are you always looking to grow the portfolio, or are there specific times that you\u2019ll do that?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 That is a great question, Kevin. The reason why I love answering this question is more around after we had two or three in the portfolio and my wife and I were about to start thinking about starting a family, the question starts to come: how many more of these things do I need? What about the impact of cash flows with the kids and their schooling and their education? All of those things you have to start thinking about from a cash flow point of view.
\nThere was really nothing out there that could accommodate a multiple property portfolio and modeling that, so that led me to build that with Michael Pope, one of my business partners here, to be able to start answering a lot more of those questions.
\nThe answer is I\u2019ve still being active. I\u2019ve bought a couple more. I have a self-managed super fund. The strategy inside the self-managed super fund has been different strategy for my wife Jane and I in terms of how we built the portfolio, but what we\u2019re able to do by getting more understanding of the planning side of it is we set ourselves a target of $160,000 in passive income from our portfolio by the age of 50. I turn 46 this year, so that\u2019s what we\u2019re striving towards.
\nSo from that point of view, I haven\u2019t had to constantly say to myself, \u201cI need another one. I need another one. I need another one.\u201d There\u2019s probably just one more to fit in for that based on our planning. But I\u2019ll probably still buy a couple more in the self-managed super fund because I can\u2019t touch that until I\u2019m 60 or 65 the way the governments are playing with super.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Let me ask you the question this way. What sort of investor are you?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think a buy-hold. Other than the silly one where I was given the wrong advice to cash out and basically buy into that Sydney property, into Alexandria there, everything else has pretty much been a buy-hold. The super fund is chasing a bit more yield, but the main properties that I\u2019ve been buying have been more blue-chip type assets in the right locations around the major employment centers in the big capital cities.
\nKevin:<\/b> Would you buy overseas?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 I haven\u2019t touched the overseas market. I\u2019ve had a couple looks at America a couple of times, and my brother\u2019s put a couple of brochures across my desk in regards to Bali and Indonesia and so forth. But I\u2019ve always taken the view that as much as my portfolio is very easy to manage, they\u2019re still local assets. So if I have any problems around being able to fix up whatever it may be or difficult tenants and all that, it\u2019s a lot easier to manage in Australia than what it is offshore.
\nThat\u2019s not to say that as my knowledge and understanding of more global property markets develops that I wouldn\u2019t look at that, but I think I\u2019m a bit like Scott Keck from Charter Keck Cramer. I\u2019ve heard him speak a couple of times, and he\u2019s a ripper. He\u2019s like \u201cWhen should we start to invest in commercial property? When should we start to invest in offshore?\u201d
\nHe said once you get around the $5 million residential portfolio. I heard him say that about 13 years ago, and then I recently heard him speak about two years ago and he said once you have about a $10 million residential portfolio.
\nThat probably speaks volumes to me in terms of my portfolio, and that\u2019s certainly how I approach looking after clients. I understand that we all work hard for our money, so I\u2019m not about to speculate in markets that have very little regulation and jurisdictions and potential risk.
\nBali is an example, maybe. We saw the horrific bombings that occurred there and what happens to the marketplace there and it\u2019s a one-industry town. From that point of view I\u2019ll probably steer clear of that. I still see a great opportunities in the Australian market.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Yes. Plenty of opportunities here. What\u2019s the most common question you\u2019re asked from people who are looking at becoming property investors?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think that\u2019s an easy one. It\u2019s \u201cWhere\u2019s the best suburb to buy right now?\u201d
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 How do you answer that? What do you say?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Pretty simply. It\u2019s \u201cWhat\u2019s your end game? What\u2019s your goal?\u201d That\u2019s the truth. For some people, buying a $1.5 million property is actually their best move right now. For other people who maybe have less income coming into the household, it could be a matter of two properties in a regional town that\u2019s delivering them strong cash flow and maybe a bit of capital growth along the journey.
\nI think the best way to answer that is to just understand the client a little bit better in terms of what they\u2019re trying to do, because right in that GFC period, on my credit card I could have bought 30 properties on my credit card in Detroit. For people to say, \u201cI have 35 properties, or I have 40 properties, or whatever\u201d it could mean a lot for some people. They could be 35 fantastic properties and good luck to them.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 You have to ask that question though, haven\u2019t you, really?
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 I think you do. If you have five or six really good ones that are generating income and you pay your debt down and each property is generating you $30,000 or $40,000 a year in income, that is a very handsome retirement that you\u2019re going to enjoy with that type of income.
\nKevin:<\/b>\u00a0 Always great talking to you, Ben. I appreciate your time. Ben Kingsley, my guest, the CEO and founder of Empower Wealth.
\nGreat talking to you, Ben. All the best, mate.
\nBen:<\/b>\u00a0 Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me.
\n <\/p>\n

Vendor Reports – Let the Buyer Beware – Garth Brown<\/h2>\n

Kevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Homebuyers in New South Wales will soon have greater access to discounted pre-purchase inspection reports with reforms announced by the state Minister for Innovation & Better Regulation in that state.
\nWe very rarely do a state-only story, but we will in this case because I think there\u2019s a lot of lessons that can be learned by people right around Australia. Apart from New South Wales, the ACT is the only other state that asks sellers to get the pre-purchase inspections done. It could happen in other states. And if it does, maybe there are some lessons in what we\u2019re about to talk about now.
\nConveyancer Garth Brown from Brown and Brown Conveyancing has warned buyers that they should beware of these reports. He joins me.
\nHi, Garth. Thanks for your time.
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Hi, Kevin. Thanks for that.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Why are you sounding this note of caution? Surely, it\u2019s a good thing; it\u2019s going to save buyers some time and money.
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes. Look, it\u2019s a good thing in theory but there\u2019s this proviso or red flag where I warn potential purchases of property where a vendor has had these pre-inspection reports produced is that they could be dumbed down. Maybe an agent regularly uses a particular pest and building report and they\u2019ll just brush over any potential major problem and maybe list it as a minor problem when really it\u2019s a major problem. It\u2019s that independence of opinion, as well.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>What regulation is there around this to prevent that and protect consumers? Surely, a qualified building inspector who has a license, he\u2019s doing this, doesn\u2019t he have an obligation to make sure that he reports accurately and correctly?
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes, that\u2019s what he\u2019s employed to do. He generally has insurance for that. But other than that, it\u2019s really up to the freewill of the billing inspector as to what he reports.
\nWhat\u2019s a really good thing with the pest and building reports is any report that has pictures of different parts of the house, it gives you a bit more confidence in their report \u2013 and videos. Some of those pest and building inspectors carry those sorts of technology. That gives you a bit more confidence in the report and independence of it.
\nIt\u2019s just there\u2019s a red flag that some purchasers, they\u2019ll rely on those reports and then they\u2019ll end up doing their own after exchange of contracts.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>After exchange of contracts, what position are they in at that stage to dispute the contract if they find something?
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Not in a very good position, but if a major problem is found, they could still negotiate with the vendor. So, that is potentially a problem. But most vendors I have encountered do come to the party and negotiate, but you are running that risk.
\nIt\u2019s just that between exchange and getting these reports together, there\u2019s so much going on that potential buyers can miss out on a property and just decide to do it afterwards.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Because in some other states of Australia, when you do take a contract out on a property, you can make it subject to a satisfactory building and pest inspection, which admittedly is funded by the buyer. In this case, you\u2019re recommending the same thing should happen anyway, Garth. Is that right?
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes, that\u2019s right. Yes, you should. But most of those contracts don\u2019t have that special clause in the contract in New South Wales unless it\u2019s agreed to by the vendor before exchange of contract.
\nThe other way is if you have a cooling-off period but some vendors won\u2019t allow that; they want an unconditional contract.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes. It really varies from state to state, doesn\u2019t it? I\u2019m just looking around Australia. Each state is totally different in how they handle. The New South Wales system seems to me to be very convoluted. There are lots of things that can go wrong and there\u2019s no surety that you\u2019re really ought to be able to settle on the date of settlement.
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes, that\u2019s true, but that is changing as well with this PEXA online settlement system, where it does away with the need for titles and people turning up with checks and other associated things at settlement. That is slowly changing where if a settlement day is chosen, it generally goes ahead pretty well with this new PEXA online system.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>I did an interview recently, Garth, and you may or may not have heard about this. In the States, they\u2019ve enacted things they call Transaction Rooms, which is where all the documents are placed if there\u2019s a sale going through. All the solicitors\u2019 contracts and documents and searches are all inside the Transaction Room, and anyone can view them at any point in time. And even to the point of all the way through the settlement, all parties are there.
\nThis is probably the way it\u2019s going to go long term as we become more used to how the Internet as working and this need for transparency. I think it\u2019s very, very important, isn\u2019t it?
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>It is. And just on that note there, the PEXA have this little app that you can track your online settlement as to how it\u2019s going. It\u2019s like a countdown clock, letting you know where it\u2019s all up to.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>How could those interested access this, Garth?
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>You go to Pexa.com.au. It talks about online settlements. If your practitioner is not registered for it or if your bank is not, you won\u2019t be able to use it. But if all parties are, it\u2019s a great system to make sure your property settles on time.
\nKevin:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Yes, well worth looking into. Thank you for your timely warning too, Garth. Garth Brown from Brown and Brown Conveyancers. Thanks for your time, Garth, and talk soon.
\nGarth:\u00a0\u00a0<\/b>Thanks, Kevin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Property Industry leader Ben Kingsley is our feature guest this week as he talks about his earliest property investment lessons and how he nearly fell for a big mistake he now sees many investors make.\u00a0 Like so many of our past guests, Ben is very…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176692471,"featured_media":10521,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,11,13,24],"tags":[101],"class_list":["post-10520","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-kevin-turner-sponsored-channels","category-kevin-update","category-latest-story","category-shows","tag-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nProperty industry leader talks about his mistakes + The future of property investing + Buyer beware of false reports - Realty Talk<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Property industry leader talks about his mistakes + The future of property investing + Buyer beware of false reports - Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Property Industry leader Ben Kingsley is our feature guest this week as he talks about his earliest property investment lessons and how he nearly fell for a big mistake he now sees many investors make.\u00a0 Like so many of our past guests, Ben is very...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/channels.realty.com.au\/realtytalk\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Realty Talk\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-02-17T02:00:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"rolanrush\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"rolanrush\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"42 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"rolanrush\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/384a57ac9e52cb9bf19896cb15eaa52d\"},\"headline\":\"Property industry leader talks about his mistakes + The future of property investing + Buyer beware of false reports\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-02-17T02:00:50+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":8363,\"commentCount\":0,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"\",\"keywords\":[\"podcast\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Kevin Turner\",\"Kevin's Update\",\"Latest Stories\",\"Shows\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/channels.realty.com.au\\\/realtytalk\\\/property-industry-leader-talks-about-his-mistakes-the-future-of-property-investing-buyer-beware-of-false-reports\\\/\",\"name\":\"Property industry leader talks about his mistakes + The future of property investing + Buyer beware of false reports - 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